Author Topic: new to this  (Read 23917 times)

gcr

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Re: new to this
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2016, 11:02:36 pm »
Bread - if you want to take risks with a company like PPC, you need to look at 2 things 1) what are the construction companies doing and are their project pipelines healthy. 2) What business building plans are in the pipeline and what have been approved.
PPC has steep competition from Afrisam (inside RSA) and also has competitors sitting outside of RSA.
Mall of Africa has been the latest large development but that was hatched 15 years ago - there is the development out at Modderfontein and PPC will undoubtedly get a slice of the action, but there are currently not enough large developments to sustain all the cement makers
So I would not invest in PPC - though I did invest in them in early 2000 to about 2009 when they were chugging along with an expanding economy going into the World Cup - I did making money out of this counter
 
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein

jaDEB

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Re: new to this
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2016, 07:33:00 am »
Bread bought PPC in the Investor challenge, not like he is loosing money, that is what Competitions are for. You sure as F&^% is not going to win by buying FNB shares... :whistle: , but grc I appreciate your input, I is finking of using my risk (2%) portion of my port to buy high risk.
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Mr_Dividend

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Re: new to this
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2016, 09:46:45 am »
Bread bought PPC in the Investor challenge, not like he is loosing money, that is what Competitions are for. You sure as F&^% is not going to win by buying FNB shares... :whistle: , but grc I appreciate your input, I is finking of using my risk (2%) portion of my port to buy high risk.

For me, I don't mind having a small percentage of smaller cap, higher risk shares in my long term investment portfolio - but I am very weary of mixing in risky, trading shares. I do not want to blur the lines between long term investments and trading. But have been contemplating having a trading account - ether leverage account with GT247 (which means you can go short, but many smaller cap shares are not available) - or clear out my EE account of any long term holdings, and use that for trading. Of course, EE is not suitable for day trading, but should be fine for holding for weeks to a few months.

BTW why I don't like "mixing" the accounts - I think it would be too easy to right off long term gains with short term bets.

jaDEB

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Re: new to this
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2016, 10:14:08 am »
100% Mr Dividend, mentally I ring-fenced the 2%. I will try not to blur the lines. But it also keeps me busy buying and selling the risky stuff so that I leave the long term good investment alone... make sense ?  :TU:  :question:
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Bread

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Re: new to this
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2016, 12:38:43 pm »
Yes, admittedly, I did make a mistake buying Spar with real money. I got carried away with market sentiment and didn't stick to my plan. My emotions got the better of me, which they tend to do when I'm not looking.

I didn't buy PPC with real money. And, looking at yesterday's volume, I would say today would be a good day to buy it back again. Being at the bottom of the Investor Challenge I've got nothing to lose.....lose.....lose..... . . .

Q

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Re: new to this
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2016, 03:36:02 pm »
The only advice better than this of Orca is to start your own business and use the profits to educate yourself further

Bread

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Re: new to this
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2016, 04:58:39 pm »
Over 1.2 BILLION changed hands about an hour ago.  :whistle:

jaDEB

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Re: new to this
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2016, 05:05:50 pm »
Over 1.2 BILLION changed hands about an hour ago.  :whistle:

oF WHAT ? SPAR ShaREs ?
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Bread

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Re: new to this
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2016, 05:16:16 pm »
Nah. PPC  :whistle:

jaDEB

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Re: new to this
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2016, 06:07:01 pm »
my F%$# head hurts  :question: , I assume this is good news.

PPC002/PPC003/PPC004 - Issuer redemption and consent solicitation - Final amended guarantee

PPC Ltd
(Incorporated in the Republic of South Africa)
(Company registration number: 1892/000667/06)
(the "Issuer")
JSE Bond Code: PPC002             ISIN: ZAG000111212
JSE Bond Code: PPC003             ISIN: ZAG000117524
JSE Bond Code: PPC004             ISIN: ZAG000117532

ISSUER REDEMPTION NOTICE AND CONSENT SOLICITATION – FINAL AMENDED GUARANTEE


INTRODUCTION

1.    The Issuer disseminated a SENS announcement in respect of redemption notice and consent
      solicitation to amend the Terms and Conditions (the SENS Announcement) to the noteholders (the
      Noteholders), on 2 June 2016, of the PPC002 Notes (ZAG000111212), the PPC003 Notes
      (ZAG000117524) and the PPC004 Notes (ZAG000117532) (collectively, the Notes) issued under the
      Issuer’s ZAR6,000,000,000 Domestic Medium Term Note Programme (the Programme) pursuant to
      the programme memorandum dated 18 March 2013 (the Programme Memorandum), in accordance
      with Condition 19 (Notices) of the section of the Programme Memorandum headed “Terms and
      Conditions of the Notes”.

2.    Following the SENS Announcement referred to in paragraph 1 above, the Issuer hereby notifies the
      Noteholders that the Guarantee has been further amended and such final amended Guarantee is
      attached hereto marked “Annexure A”, and is further available on the Issuer’s website at
      www.ppc.co.za and /or on request from the Debt Sponsor. Requests should be sent to Bonnie Brink at
      [email protected] and by telephone at +27 11 895 6843.

3.    The Guarantee will become valid and binding on signature by the PPC Guarantors (as defined
      therein).

4.    This Notice is being delivered to Strate Proprietary Limited and the JSE Limited in accordance with
      Condition 19 (Notices) of the Terms and Conditions.

21 June 2016

Debt Sponsor
Absa Corporate and Investment Bank, a division of Absa Bank Limited
                                     Annexure A – Amended Guarantee

We, the undersigned,
Absa Bank Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking division.
(registration number 1986/004794/06), a public company with limited liability and a registered bank duly
incorporated in accordance with the company and banking laws of South Africa ;

The Standard Bank of South Africa Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking
division
(registration number 1962/000738/06), a public company with limited liability and a registered bank duly
incorporated in accordance with the company and banking laws of South Africa;

Nedbank Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking division
(registration number 1951/000009/06), a public company with limited liability and a registered bank duly
incorporated in accordance with the company and banking laws of South Africa;

FirstRand Bank Limited, acting through its Rand Merchant Bank division
(registration number 1929/001225/06), a public company with limited liability and a registered bank duly
incorporated in accordance with the company and banking laws of South Africa,
(collectively, the Guarantors),

hereby, irrevocably and unconditionally guarantee (each as primary obligor and not merely as surety) to the
holders of Notes with Stock Codes PPC002, PPC003, PPC004 and PPC005 (the Noteholders) issued by
PPC Limited (Incorporated in the Republic of South Africa with limited liability under registration number
1892/000667/06) (the Issuer) under the PPC Limited ZAR6,000,000,000 Domestic Medium Term Note
Programme (the Programme), the due and punctual payment of any interest and principal amounts, which
principal amounts shall not exceed in the aggregate R1,750,000,000 (one billion seven hundred and fifty
million Rand) due by the Issuer in respect of the Notes arising under the Programme pursuant to the
Programme Memorandum issued by the Issuer, dated 18 March 2013, as amended and/or supplemented
from time to time (the Programme Memorandum and such amount the Bonded Amount), provided that the
liability of each Guarantor shall not exceed the percentage of the Bonded Amount set out opposite the name
of that Guarantor below (each a Pro Rata Percentage):
      Absa Bank Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking division - 24.2%;
      Nedbank Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking division, - 23.1%
      FirstRand Bank, acting through its Rand Merchant Bank division – 9.4%; and
      The Standard Bank of South Africa Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking
      division – 43.3%.
1.    Terms used but not defined herein have the meanings set forth in the section of the Programme
      Memorandum headed “Terms and Conditions of the Notes” (the Terms and Conditions).
2.    All payments made in terms of this Guarantee shall be made mutatis mutandis in accordance with
      Conditions 9 (Interest) and 10 (Payments) of the Terms and Conditions.
3.    This Guarantee shall be binding on each Guarantor severally (but not jointly), and shall continue to be
      binding on each such Guarantor and, with respect to any payment, or any part thereof, of principal
      and/or interest on any Note that is rescinded or must otherwise be returned by the Transfer Agent or
      any Noteholder if such rescission or return of payment has been compelled by law as a result of the
      insolvency of any of the Issuer or any other person or if such rescission or return of payment is a result
      of any law, regulation or decree applicable to the Issuer or such persons.
4.    Each Guarantor hereby renounces all benefits arising from the legal exceptions “beneficia excussionis
      et divisionis” (the benefits of excussion and division), with the force and effect of which such Guarantor
      hereby declares it to be fully acquainted. Each Guarantor agrees that this Guarantee is to be in
      addition and without prejudice to any other suretyship/s and security/ies now or hereafter to be held by
      the Noteholders and shall remain in force as a continuing security notwithstanding any intermediate
      settlement of account and notwithstanding any legal disability of such Guarantor.
5.    No action in respect of any collateral or security given by the Issuer, or any other persons, in respect of
      the Notes is required to be taken before action is taken against any of the Guarantors under this
      Guarantee, and the existence or enforceability of this Guarantee shall not affect or be affected by any
      other security held in respect of the Issuer’s obligations under the Notes.
6.    Any admission made by the Issuer in respect of the Notes shall be binding on each Guarantor.
7.    All demands made under this Guarantee shall be made by the Paying Agent on behalf of the
      Noteholders. The Paying Agent shall, by no later than 4 (four) Business Days prior to the due date for
      payment of any principal amounts or interest under and in terms of the Notes, notify the Facility Agent
      of the applicable due date for payment and the amount required to be paid to the Noteholders.
8.    A demand made under this Guarantee by the Paying Agent on behalf of the Noteholders shall be
      made (i) at least 4 (four) Business Days prior to the due date for the applicable payment, and (ii) in
      writing to Nedbank Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking division (the Facility
      Agent) at the address specified below.
9.    Each Guarantor shall, on the Business Day that is 1 (one) Business Day before the applicable due
      date for payment set out in the demand from the Paying Agent, pay its Pro Rata Percentage of the
      amount set out in the written demand (the Called Amount) to the Facility Agent, provided that –
9.1.  each Guarantor shall not be required to pay any amounts in excess of its respective Pro Rata
      Percentage of the Called Amount;
9.2.  no Guarantor shall be required to pay more than its Pro Rata Percentage of the Bonded Amount in
      aggregate;
9.3.  no Guarantor shall be liable to perform the obligations of any other Guarantor hereunder; and
9.4.  the aggregate amount of all such demands shall not exceed the Bonded Amount.
10.   Payment to the Paying Agent under this Guarantee shall:
10.1. be made by the Facility Agent to the Paying Agent not later than the applicable due date for
      payment;
10.2. discharge the Guarantors of its applicable obligations to the Noteholders under this Guarantee; and
10.3. pro tanto discharge the Issuer of its corresponding obligations to the Noteholders under the Notes.
11.   Each notice, demand or other communication under this Guarantee and the delivery of any Notes
      which have been discharged as a result of payment by the Guarantors under this Guarantee shall be
      in writing and be delivered personally or by recognised courier and be deemed to have been given:
11.1. in the case of a letter, when delivered; and
11.2. shall be sent to the Facility Agent at:
                Physical address:         Nedbank Limited
                                          6th Floor, H Block
                                          135 Rivonia Road
                                          Sandown
                                          Johannesburg

                Attention:                The Head: Special Portfolio
                Facsimile:                [email protected]
     
      or to such other address in South Africa as is notified from time to time by the Guarantors to the
      Noteholders in accordance with Condition 19 (Notices) of the Terms and Conditions.
12.   This Guarantee is, and all rights and obligations relating to this Guarantee are, governed by, and shall
      be construed in accordance with, the laws of South Africa.
13.   Subject to paragraph 17, this Guarantee will terminate upon the earlier of (i) all of the obligations of the
      Issuer under the Notes being fully and finally discharged in accordance with the Terms and Conditions;
      (ii) 17:00 Johannesburg time on 2 November 2016; or (iii) the date on which the Programme is
      terminated by the Issuer (the Expiry Date).
14.   Each Guarantor agrees for the benefit of the Noteholders that the High Court of South Africa, Gauteng
      Local Division, Johannesburg (or any successor to that division) shall have jurisdiction to hear and
      determine any suit, action or proceedings, and to settle any disputes which may arise out of or in
      connection with this Guarantee and, for such purposes, irrevocably submits to the jurisdiction of such
      court.
15.   This Guarantee will be deposited with, and be held by, the Paying Agent until the Expiry Date. This
      Guarantee shall, subject to paragraph 17, expire on the Expiry Date notwithstanding that the original of
      this Guarantee has not been returned to the Facility Agent.
16.   Each Guarantor acknowledges and agrees that, in terms of the agency agreement concluded on 18
      March 2013 between FirstRand Bank Limited, acting through its Rand Merchant Bank division (in its
      capacities as paying agent, calculation agent and transfer agent and the Issuer, each Noteholder shall
      be entitled to require the Paying Agent to produce the original of this Guarantee on request and further
      shall be entitled to require the Paying Agent, which shall be obliged, to provide a copy of this
      Guarantee to that Noteholder on request. In holding the Guarantee, the Paying Agent shall not act in
      any fiduciary or similar capacity for the Noteholders and shall not accept any liability, duty or
      responsibility to Noteholders in this regard.
17.   Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained herein, if the Paying Agent has delivered a valid
      demand to the Facility Agent in accordance with the provisions of this Guarantee, each Guarantor
      shall be obliged to make payment of its Pro Rata Percentage of the applicable amount demanded in
      accordance with the terms and conditions of this Guarantee.
18.   This Guarantee constitutes the whole agreement relating to the subject matter hereof. No amendment
      or consensual cancellation of this Guarantee or any provision or term hereof shall be binding unless
      approved by Extraordinary Resolution of Noteholders and thereafter recorded in a written document
      signed by each Guarantor. Any waiver or relaxation or suspension given or made shall be strictly
      construed as relating strictly to the matter in respect whereof it was made or given.
19.   This Guarantee may be executed in any number of counterparts and by different parties thereto in
      separate counterparts, each of which when so executed shall be deemed to be an original and all of
      which when taken together shall constitute one and the same Guarantee.

SIGNED at ________________________ on this ______ day of__________________ 2016


For and on behalf of
ABSA BANK LIMITED, ACTING THROUGH ITS CORPORATE AND INVESTMENT BANKING DIVISION
(IN ITS CAPACITY AS GUARANTOR)
jaDEB

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Q

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Re: new to this
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2016, 07:13:54 pm »
jaDEB where does that come from can't find any PPC SENS release

Also I don't understand why you would buy the debt of a company issuing bonds. You would think a company that for decades was the sole supplier of semen-t they should be much better positioned than this. Where does their debt come from?

jaDEB

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jaDEB

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Q

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Re: new to this
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2016, 07:53:19 pm »
Dankie

Bread

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Re: new to this
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2016, 03:27:27 pm »
Over 60 million changed hands so far in Spar, most of it going through between 1 and 2  :whistle:  ;D

Bread

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Re: new to this
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2016, 02:34:10 pm »
Ok, I've had enough of this. PPC sold to the man in the green shorts. Er, shirt.