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General Category => Shares => Topic started by: zim.millioniare on May 31, 2016, 03:44:38 pm

Title: new to this
Post by: zim.millioniare on May 31, 2016, 03:44:38 pm
There are 2 shares I am currently looking at

WSL
PPC

WSL looks like a good share, might be peeking at the moment from what I can see, and ya I know my terminology sucks, im just keen on doing some due diligence on my side to see if it is a worthwhile trade as it seems very volatile,

PPC - "seems" to have bottomed out, would it be a good buy at the moment, how does one determine whether or not PPC could end up being worth 12cents?

any input would be appreciated

new to the forum "Hello"
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Hamster on May 31, 2016, 03:47:48 pm
/waves

How much do you know about investing/trading or is this your first time out?
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: jaDEB on May 31, 2016, 03:50:40 pm
PPC you need to look at the rights issue, how much dilution is there on there NAV.

PPC’s FUNDING STRATEGY

The Board and the Executive Management of the Company have reviewed
the Company’s business plan and capital structure and are in the
process of implementing a funding strategy which incorporates a
capital raise to deal effectively with the impact of a continued
low-growth environment as well as the potential redemption of the
Notes and the strengthening of the balance sheet.

The Company intends to raise between R3 billion and R4 billion in
gross proceeds through a rights issue. PPC is in discussions with
various parties with respect to the potential underwriting of the
proposed rights issue. The Company will also consider such other
forms of equity capital raising as may be appropriate in light of
its position, market conditions and other factors.

The Board intends to announce further details regarding the proposed
rights issue on 14 June 2016, when it releases its results for the
financial year ended 31 March 2016, and to publish a shareholder
circular convening an extraordinary general meeting to approve the
required shareholder resolutions in order to implement the proposed
rights issue on or about 28 June 2016.

In the interim, and in order to address its commitments to the
noteholders, the Company has executed a credit approved term sheet
with its debt providers which summarises the terms and conditions on
which such debt providers will step in as guarantors to the
noteholders.

FURTHER CAUTIONARY ANNOUNCEMENT

Further to the cautionary announcement released on 23 May 2016 and
the information set out in this announcement, security holders are
advised to continue exercising caution when dealing in PPC
securities until a further announcement is published.

Any securities which will be offered will not be and have not been
registered under the US Securities Act of 1933 (“US Securities Act”)
and may not be offered or sold in the United States absent
registration or an applicable exemption from the registration
requirements under the US Securities Act.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: gcr on May 31, 2016, 03:59:09 pm
My opinion:-
Wouldn't touch either of these shares
PPC specific - there are so many cement manufactures in Africa and also large imports from China. Our economy has stalled there are very few infrastructure developments in Africa (to my mind) to invest in any of the cement manufactures. When looking at the cement industry also look at the iron industry as all industrial sites/shopping centres require rebar for building/shuttering purposes and the iron ore industry is also struggling. PPC had its haydays when the soccer stadia were being built     
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: zim.millioniare on June 01, 2016, 09:31:06 am
Thanks for the helpful replies guys

/waves

How much do you know about investing/trading or is this your first time out?

This is my first time out

My opinion:-
Wouldn't touch either of these shares
PPC specific - there are so many cement manufactures in Africa and also large imports from China. Our economy has stalled there are very few infrastructure developments in Africa (to my mind) to invest in any of the cement manufactures. When looking at the cement industry also look at the iron industry as all industrial sites/shopping centres require rebar for building/shuttering purposes and the iron ore industry is also struggling. PPC had its haydays when the soccer stadia were being built     

Very informative -> Thanks for the advice sounds solid

jaDEB -> sorry for my ignorance & I honestly dont expect people to spoon feed me stuff. I have to ask though...What the story of the rights issue? what does it? what does it imply?

Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on June 01, 2016, 09:45:45 am
If you're an uptrend trader now would not be a good time to buy. If you're a downtrend trader today or tomorrow or the next should be a good time to buy but then you should sell after about 7 to 14 trading days. PPC that is.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: jaDEB on June 01, 2016, 09:55:37 am
Issue of shares offered at a special price by a company to its existing shareholders in proportion to their holding of old shares.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: zim.millioniare on June 01, 2016, 10:07:49 am
so PPC a no go then? seems like based on what you guys are saying. Due to the business they are in, not the best industry to be in.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: dividendtycoon on June 04, 2016, 08:23:58 am
Nobody knows how much PPC may rebound, it might go up another 30%, it might also fall another 20%. I would be more inclined to look for businesses that will do well in the long term that are reasonably priced. I have never invested in PPC because I do not like the industry, it seems too much of a commodity product, and somebody with enough capital could start a cement plant. Look for businesses that have strong moats around them, and prehaps less cyclical than the building industry.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on June 06, 2016, 07:52:28 pm
Bought PPC today in the Investor Challenge. Let's see what happens.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: PlatinumWealth.co.za on June 10, 2016, 09:29:07 am
I bought PPC a few days ago, not much just gamble money, since they are massive and the dominant cement player, so when the economy recovers which it will then new developments will be build also remember the new City in Cape Town that going to be build. PPC, interesting stuff don't see growth any time this year, but I do see them making a turn it's a well managed company.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: jaDEB on June 10, 2016, 10:17:33 am
Nice, hope u make some nice moola. I do as you do, take high risk, hence I am sitting with 1Time shares  :'( , and also African Bank  :'( .

But also so far made 114% on Lonmin. But I keep it at very low % of portfolio. I am  planning, when I sell my LON, to keep that money for high risk shares like PPC etc.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on June 20, 2016, 06:57:36 pm
Bought PPC today in the Investor Challenge. Let's see what happens.

Well. That was a disaster  :LHST:
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Q on June 20, 2016, 08:31:05 pm
I bought PPC a few days ago, not much just gamble money, since they are massive and the dominant cement player, so when the economy recovers which it will then new developments will be build also remember the new City in Cape Town that going to be build. PPC, interesting stuff don't see growth any time this year, but I do see them making a turn it's a well managed company.

I'm going to play devils advocate which will most probably result in PPC shares tomorrow flying high but well managed companies will not be looking to raise between R3 - R4 billion to reduce current debt levels per SENS 23 May 2016. What about future debt and dividends?
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Orca on June 20, 2016, 10:07:03 pm
Do not gamble with real money. You will loose believe you me.
Look at jadDEB. He lost big time over the years with his commodities and is only now having a lucky streak.
Bread has lost 20%+ in as many days as fingers I can stick in my nostril with PPC. Wow. Then he took a gamble on Spar with real money and lost out with 5% odd if not 15% in a few days.

Just stick with Index stocks and ETF's if you are not sure. On the long run, you will smile and not have to worry about single stocks and when to sell if they tank.

Most single stocks are cyclycle and it takes some intensive research to find the right ones that keep going up.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: gcr on June 20, 2016, 11:02:36 pm
Bread - if you want to take risks with a company like PPC, you need to look at 2 things 1) what are the construction companies doing and are their project pipelines healthy. 2) What business building plans are in the pipeline and what have been approved.
PPC has steep competition from Afrisam (inside RSA) and also has competitors sitting outside of RSA.
Mall of Africa has been the latest large development but that was hatched 15 years ago - there is the development out at Modderfontein and PPC will undoubtedly get a slice of the action, but there are currently not enough large developments to sustain all the cement makers
So I would not invest in PPC - though I did invest in them in early 2000 to about 2009 when they were chugging along with an expanding economy going into the World Cup - I did making money out of this counter
 
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: jaDEB on June 21, 2016, 07:33:00 am
Bread bought PPC in the Investor challenge, not like he is loosing money, that is what Competitions are for. You sure as F&^% is not going to win by buying FNB shares... :whistle: , but grc I appreciate your input, I is finking of using my risk (2%) portion of my port to buy high risk.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Mr_Dividend on June 21, 2016, 09:46:45 am
Bread bought PPC in the Investor challenge, not like he is loosing money, that is what Competitions are for. You sure as F&^% is not going to win by buying FNB shares... :whistle: , but grc I appreciate your input, I is finking of using my risk (2%) portion of my port to buy high risk.

For me, I don't mind having a small percentage of smaller cap, higher risk shares in my long term investment portfolio - but I am very weary of mixing in risky, trading shares. I do not want to blur the lines between long term investments and trading. But have been contemplating having a trading account - ether leverage account with GT247 (which means you can go short, but many smaller cap shares are not available) - or clear out my EE account of any long term holdings, and use that for trading. Of course, EE is not suitable for day trading, but should be fine for holding for weeks to a few months.

BTW why I don't like "mixing" the accounts - I think it would be too easy to right off long term gains with short term bets.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: jaDEB on June 21, 2016, 10:14:08 am
100% Mr Dividend, mentally I ring-fenced the 2%. I will try not to blur the lines. But it also keeps me busy buying and selling the risky stuff so that I leave the long term good investment alone... make sense ?  :TU:  :question:
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on June 21, 2016, 12:38:43 pm
Yes, admittedly, I did make a mistake buying Spar with real money. I got carried away with market sentiment and didn't stick to my plan. My emotions got the better of me, which they tend to do when I'm not looking.

I didn't buy PPC with real money. And, looking at yesterday's volume, I would say today would be a good day to buy it back again. Being at the bottom of the Investor Challenge I've got nothing to lose.....lose.....lose..... . . .
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Q on June 21, 2016, 03:36:02 pm
The only advice better than this of Orca is to start your own business and use the profits to educate yourself further
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on June 21, 2016, 04:58:39 pm
Over 1.2 BILLION changed hands about an hour ago.  :whistle:
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: jaDEB on June 21, 2016, 05:05:50 pm
Over 1.2 BILLION changed hands about an hour ago.  :whistle:

oF WHAT ? SPAR ShaREs ?
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on June 21, 2016, 05:16:16 pm
Nah. PPC  :whistle:
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: jaDEB on June 21, 2016, 06:07:01 pm
my F%$# head hurts  :question: , I assume this is good news.

PPC002/PPC003/PPC004 - Issuer redemption and consent solicitation - Final amended guarantee

PPC Ltd
(Incorporated in the Republic of South Africa)
(Company registration number: 1892/000667/06)
(the "Issuer")
JSE Bond Code: PPC002             ISIN: ZAG000111212
JSE Bond Code: PPC003             ISIN: ZAG000117524
JSE Bond Code: PPC004             ISIN: ZAG000117532

ISSUER REDEMPTION NOTICE AND CONSENT SOLICITATION – FINAL AMENDED GUARANTEE


INTRODUCTION

1.    The Issuer disseminated a SENS announcement in respect of redemption notice and consent
      solicitation to amend the Terms and Conditions (the SENS Announcement) to the noteholders (the
      Noteholders), on 2 June 2016, of the PPC002 Notes (ZAG000111212), the PPC003 Notes
      (ZAG000117524) and the PPC004 Notes (ZAG000117532) (collectively, the Notes) issued under the
      Issuer’s ZAR6,000,000,000 Domestic Medium Term Note Programme (the Programme) pursuant to
      the programme memorandum dated 18 March 2013 (the Programme Memorandum), in accordance
      with Condition 19 (Notices) of the section of the Programme Memorandum headed “Terms and
      Conditions of the Notes”.

2.    Following the SENS Announcement referred to in paragraph 1 above, the Issuer hereby notifies the
      Noteholders that the Guarantee has been further amended and such final amended Guarantee is
      attached hereto marked “Annexure A”, and is further available on the Issuer’s website at
      www.ppc.co.za and /or on request from the Debt Sponsor. Requests should be sent to Bonnie Brink at
      [email protected] and by telephone at +27 11 895 6843.

3.    The Guarantee will become valid and binding on signature by the PPC Guarantors (as defined
      therein).

4.    This Notice is being delivered to Strate Proprietary Limited and the JSE Limited in accordance with
      Condition 19 (Notices) of the Terms and Conditions.

21 June 2016

Debt Sponsor
Absa Corporate and Investment Bank, a division of Absa Bank Limited
                                     Annexure A – Amended Guarantee

We, the undersigned,
Absa Bank Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking division.
(registration number 1986/004794/06), a public company with limited liability and a registered bank duly
incorporated in accordance with the company and banking laws of South Africa ;

The Standard Bank of South Africa Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking
division
(registration number 1962/000738/06), a public company with limited liability and a registered bank duly
incorporated in accordance with the company and banking laws of South Africa;

Nedbank Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking division
(registration number 1951/000009/06), a public company with limited liability and a registered bank duly
incorporated in accordance with the company and banking laws of South Africa;

FirstRand Bank Limited, acting through its Rand Merchant Bank division
(registration number 1929/001225/06), a public company with limited liability and a registered bank duly
incorporated in accordance with the company and banking laws of South Africa,
(collectively, the Guarantors),

hereby, irrevocably and unconditionally guarantee (each as primary obligor and not merely as surety) to the
holders of Notes with Stock Codes PPC002, PPC003, PPC004 and PPC005 (the Noteholders) issued by
PPC Limited (Incorporated in the Republic of South Africa with limited liability under registration number
1892/000667/06) (the Issuer) under the PPC Limited ZAR6,000,000,000 Domestic Medium Term Note
Programme (the Programme), the due and punctual payment of any interest and principal amounts, which
principal amounts shall not exceed in the aggregate R1,750,000,000 (one billion seven hundred and fifty
million Rand) due by the Issuer in respect of the Notes arising under the Programme pursuant to the
Programme Memorandum issued by the Issuer, dated 18 March 2013, as amended and/or supplemented
from time to time (the Programme Memorandum and such amount the Bonded Amount), provided that the
liability of each Guarantor shall not exceed the percentage of the Bonded Amount set out opposite the name
of that Guarantor below (each a Pro Rata Percentage):
      Absa Bank Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking division - 24.2%;
      Nedbank Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking division, - 23.1%
      FirstRand Bank, acting through its Rand Merchant Bank division – 9.4%; and
      The Standard Bank of South Africa Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking
      division – 43.3%.
1.    Terms used but not defined herein have the meanings set forth in the section of the Programme
      Memorandum headed “Terms and Conditions of the Notes” (the Terms and Conditions).
2.    All payments made in terms of this Guarantee shall be made mutatis mutandis in accordance with
      Conditions 9 (Interest) and 10 (Payments) of the Terms and Conditions.
3.    This Guarantee shall be binding on each Guarantor severally (but not jointly), and shall continue to be
      binding on each such Guarantor and, with respect to any payment, or any part thereof, of principal
      and/or interest on any Note that is rescinded or must otherwise be returned by the Transfer Agent or
      any Noteholder if such rescission or return of payment has been compelled by law as a result of the
      insolvency of any of the Issuer or any other person or if such rescission or return of payment is a result
      of any law, regulation or decree applicable to the Issuer or such persons.
4.    Each Guarantor hereby renounces all benefits arising from the legal exceptions “beneficia excussionis
      et divisionis” (the benefits of excussion and division), with the force and effect of which such Guarantor
      hereby declares it to be fully acquainted. Each Guarantor agrees that this Guarantee is to be in
      addition and without prejudice to any other suretyship/s and security/ies now or hereafter to be held by
      the Noteholders and shall remain in force as a continuing security notwithstanding any intermediate
      settlement of account and notwithstanding any legal disability of such Guarantor.
5.    No action in respect of any collateral or security given by the Issuer, or any other persons, in respect of
      the Notes is required to be taken before action is taken against any of the Guarantors under this
      Guarantee, and the existence or enforceability of this Guarantee shall not affect or be affected by any
      other security held in respect of the Issuer’s obligations under the Notes.
6.    Any admission made by the Issuer in respect of the Notes shall be binding on each Guarantor.
7.    All demands made under this Guarantee shall be made by the Paying Agent on behalf of the
      Noteholders. The Paying Agent shall, by no later than 4 (four) Business Days prior to the due date for
      payment of any principal amounts or interest under and in terms of the Notes, notify the Facility Agent
      of the applicable due date for payment and the amount required to be paid to the Noteholders.
8.    A demand made under this Guarantee by the Paying Agent on behalf of the Noteholders shall be
      made (i) at least 4 (four) Business Days prior to the due date for the applicable payment, and (ii) in
      writing to Nedbank Limited, acting through its Corporate and Investment Banking division (the Facility
      Agent) at the address specified below.
9.    Each Guarantor shall, on the Business Day that is 1 (one) Business Day before the applicable due
      date for payment set out in the demand from the Paying Agent, pay its Pro Rata Percentage of the
      amount set out in the written demand (the Called Amount) to the Facility Agent, provided that –
9.1.  each Guarantor shall not be required to pay any amounts in excess of its respective Pro Rata
      Percentage of the Called Amount;
9.2.  no Guarantor shall be required to pay more than its Pro Rata Percentage of the Bonded Amount in
      aggregate;
9.3.  no Guarantor shall be liable to perform the obligations of any other Guarantor hereunder; and
9.4.  the aggregate amount of all such demands shall not exceed the Bonded Amount.
10.   Payment to the Paying Agent under this Guarantee shall:
10.1. be made by the Facility Agent to the Paying Agent not later than the applicable due date for
      payment;
10.2. discharge the Guarantors of its applicable obligations to the Noteholders under this Guarantee; and
10.3. pro tanto discharge the Issuer of its corresponding obligations to the Noteholders under the Notes.
11.   Each notice, demand or other communication under this Guarantee and the delivery of any Notes
      which have been discharged as a result of payment by the Guarantors under this Guarantee shall be
      in writing and be delivered personally or by recognised courier and be deemed to have been given:
11.1. in the case of a letter, when delivered; and
11.2. shall be sent to the Facility Agent at:
                Physical address:         Nedbank Limited
                                          6th Floor, H Block
                                          135 Rivonia Road
                                          Sandown
                                          Johannesburg

                Attention:                The Head: Special Portfolio
                Facsimile:                [email protected]
     
      or to such other address in South Africa as is notified from time to time by the Guarantors to the
      Noteholders in accordance with Condition 19 (Notices) of the Terms and Conditions.
12.   This Guarantee is, and all rights and obligations relating to this Guarantee are, governed by, and shall
      be construed in accordance with, the laws of South Africa.
13.   Subject to paragraph 17, this Guarantee will terminate upon the earlier of (i) all of the obligations of the
      Issuer under the Notes being fully and finally discharged in accordance with the Terms and Conditions;
      (ii) 17:00 Johannesburg time on 2 November 2016; or (iii) the date on which the Programme is
      terminated by the Issuer (the Expiry Date).
14.   Each Guarantor agrees for the benefit of the Noteholders that the High Court of South Africa, Gauteng
      Local Division, Johannesburg (or any successor to that division) shall have jurisdiction to hear and
      determine any suit, action or proceedings, and to settle any disputes which may arise out of or in
      connection with this Guarantee and, for such purposes, irrevocably submits to the jurisdiction of such
      court.
15.   This Guarantee will be deposited with, and be held by, the Paying Agent until the Expiry Date. This
      Guarantee shall, subject to paragraph 17, expire on the Expiry Date notwithstanding that the original of
      this Guarantee has not been returned to the Facility Agent.
16.   Each Guarantor acknowledges and agrees that, in terms of the agency agreement concluded on 18
      March 2013 between FirstRand Bank Limited, acting through its Rand Merchant Bank division (in its
      capacities as paying agent, calculation agent and transfer agent and the Issuer, each Noteholder shall
      be entitled to require the Paying Agent to produce the original of this Guarantee on request and further
      shall be entitled to require the Paying Agent, which shall be obliged, to provide a copy of this
      Guarantee to that Noteholder on request. In holding the Guarantee, the Paying Agent shall not act in
      any fiduciary or similar capacity for the Noteholders and shall not accept any liability, duty or
      responsibility to Noteholders in this regard.
17.   Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained herein, if the Paying Agent has delivered a valid
      demand to the Facility Agent in accordance with the provisions of this Guarantee, each Guarantor
      shall be obliged to make payment of its Pro Rata Percentage of the applicable amount demanded in
      accordance with the terms and conditions of this Guarantee.
18.   This Guarantee constitutes the whole agreement relating to the subject matter hereof. No amendment
      or consensual cancellation of this Guarantee or any provision or term hereof shall be binding unless
      approved by Extraordinary Resolution of Noteholders and thereafter recorded in a written document
      signed by each Guarantor. Any waiver or relaxation or suspension given or made shall be strictly
      construed as relating strictly to the matter in respect whereof it was made or given.
19.   This Guarantee may be executed in any number of counterparts and by different parties thereto in
      separate counterparts, each of which when so executed shall be deemed to be an original and all of
      which when taken together shall constitute one and the same Guarantee.

SIGNED at ________________________ on this ______ day of__________________ 2016


For and on behalf of
ABSA BANK LIMITED, ACTING THROUGH ITS CORPORATE AND INVESTMENT BANKING DIVISION
(IN ITS CAPACITY AS GUARANTOR)
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Q on June 21, 2016, 07:13:54 pm
jaDEB where does that come from can't find any PPC SENS release

Also I don't understand why you would buy the debt of a company issuing bonds. You would think a company that for decades was the sole supplier of semen-t they should be much better positioned than this. Where does their debt come from?
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: jaDEB on June 21, 2016, 07:31:47 pm
http://www.sharenet.co.za/v3/sens_display.php?tdate=20160621174400&seq=43

Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Q on June 21, 2016, 07:53:19 pm
Dankie
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on June 24, 2016, 03:27:27 pm
Over 60 million changed hands so far in Spar, most of it going through between 1 and 2  :whistle:  ;D
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on July 08, 2016, 02:34:10 pm
Ok, I've had enough of this. PPC sold to the man in the green shorts. Er, shirt.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on July 09, 2016, 04:12:08 pm
Looks like Spar either gonna break up or down this coming week.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on July 21, 2016, 10:55:04 pm
And up she goes.....7.5% in 12 trading days since my last post.....maybe the 22nd will be another good day.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: jaDEB on July 22, 2016, 10:04:20 am
Bread,

You know that u are the reason why I only have 2 Shares (98%) of my portfolio and 1 share in Portfolio 2.
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Mr_Dividend on July 22, 2016, 10:45:13 am
I thought bread was initially nuts for having a one share portfolio - but have since modified my views slightly. I can now picture myself having three portfolios. 1) long term (5+ years view) of dividend paying stocks - very diversified 20 - 40 stocks. 2) A smaller porfolio looking for aggressive growth, say up to 5 companies with a 6mth - 2 years view. Have defined exit points. 3) Speculative portfolio - buying on dips and holding for a few days/weeks. 1-3 companies.

Then having my money spread out roughly 75% 20% 5%

Title: Re: new to this
Post by: jaDEB on July 22, 2016, 10:49:10 am
Thus we need to get Bread's Street address in case it goes wrong  :whistle:
Title: Re: new to this
Post by: Bread on July 22, 2016, 07:58:42 pm
 :D.....hence you won't be able to find me when the next big correction comes around  :)

But seriously though, please keep in mind that the 1 share strategy has an exponential growth in risk, is not for the faint hearted, and I do not recommend it for anybody.

Interesting strategy you have there Mr Dividend. T'would be interesting to see a track record of the performance of your different portfolios compared to a 1 share portfolio, which makes stock picking and timing supremely important.