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Author Topic: Rules for next year  (Read 46318 times)

tgg78703

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Rules for next year
« on: December 17, 2013, 08:19:07 pm »
Don,t know if you have posted them yet.

But i have a feeling that next year will be a different kettle of fish, no cml, no satrix.

Most top shares are at a high, The only ones major down are gold (and that cost me) but will they recover
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Fundamental

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2013, 10:43:31 am »
Certainly next year will pose a challenge regarding the unsustainable growth that we have currently been experiencing in the emerging market front, I'm sure the correction of our market is going to be substantial so it will be interesting to see who comes out ahead.

I remember reading that buying and selling of shares will be allowed, which will allow for some profit taking :)
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Patrick

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2013, 11:27:24 am »
Like this year plus:
  • Selling allowed, but tax will be taken in to account on the leaderboard
  • Nothing that trades for under R1
  • Unrealistic transactions can be rolled back on forum consensus. (last year we had some freak prices for a few minutes)
  • Nothing that trades for under R1

May be more to come, I'll have to see how testing goes. This year ends on Friday, next year begins on the 6th of Jan, I'll open it up for testing as soon as I've put all the pieces together.
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Patrick

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2013, 01:36:07 pm »
It's above at the moment so it should be ok, the list of under R1 today is the following:
GIY   Giyani Gold Corporation   0
BIO   BIOSCIENCE BRANDS LTD   1
NUT   Nutritional Holdings Ltd   1
PNG   Pinnacle Point Group Ltd   1
SHB   Sherbourne Capital Ltd   1
SKY   SEA KAY HOLDINGS LTD   1
SLL   Stella Vista Tech Ltd   1
STA   STRATCORP LTD   1
PLL   PLATFIELDS LIMITED   2
TCS   Total Client Services Ld   2
1TM   1TIME HOLDINGS LTD   3
FRT   FARITEC HOLDINGS LTD   3
BEG   Beige Holdings Limited   4
ATR   AFRICA CELLULAR TOWERS   5
AWT   Awethu Breweries Ltd   5
AEA   AFRICAN EAGLE RES PLC   6
BNT   BONATLA PROPERTY HLDGS   7
SAH   South African Coal Minin   7
ADW   AFRICAN DAWN CAPITAL LTD   9
BIK   BRIKOR LTD   9
FSE   Firestone Energy Limited   9
WTL   WILLIAM TELL HOLDINGS LT   9
ERB   ERBACON INV HLDGS LTD   10
SQE   SQUARE ONE SOLUTIONS GRP   10
FUU   First Uranium Corp   11
MRI   Mine Restoration Inv Ltd   12
BFS   BLUE FINANCIAL SERVICES   13
LAB   LABAT AFRICA LTD   13
MMH   MIRANDA MINERAL HLDGS LD   13
RBA   RBA HOLDINGS LTD   14
WEA   WG Wearne Ltd   14
CMO   CHROMETCO LTD   15
JDH   John Daniel Holdings Ltd   15
PSV   PSV HOLDINGS LTD   16
QPG   Quantum Prop Group Ltd   19
DON   DON GROUP LTD   20
FCR   Ferrum Crescent Limited   20
MOR   Morvest Business Grp Ltd   20
SAN   SANYATI HOLDINGS LTD   21
ILE   Imbalie Beauty Limited   23
PPE   PURPLE CAPITAL LTD   23
AHL   AH-VEST Limited   24
SCL   Sacoil Holdings Ltd   25
SLO   SOUTHERN ELECTRICITY CO   26
CMA   Command Holdings Limited   27
ORE   ORION REAL ESTATE LTD   30
PMV   PRIMESERV GROUP LTD   31
CSP   Chemical Specialities Ld   33
ANS   Ansys Limited   34
BWI   B&W INSTRUMENT & ELEC LD   35
SDH   Securedata Holdings Ltd   35
SNU   SENTULA MINING LTD   35
TAW   TAWANA RESOURCES NL   36
UBU   Ububele Holdings Ltd   36
VIL   Village Main Reef GM Co   40
ANA   Adrenna Property Grp Ltd   45
PKH   Protech Khuthele Hldgs   45
MNY   MONEY WEB HOLDINGS LTD   46
PZG   Pamodzi Gold Limited   50
SKJ   Sekunjalo Inv Ltd   50
WKF   WORKFORCE HOLDINGS LTD   50
GDN   GOODERSON LEISURE CORP   52
ISB   Insimbi Ref & Alloy Sup   59
JBL   JUBILEE PLATINUM PLC   62
IPS   IPSA GROUP PLC   65
ISA   ISA Holdings Limited   65
TLM   TELEMASTER HOLDINGS LTD   65
WNH   Winhold Ltd   65
EPS   Eastern Platinum Ltd   66
VMK   VERIMARK HOLDINGS LTD   69
BAU   Bauba Platinum Limited   70
DLV   Dorbyl Ltd   70
GBG   GREAT BASIN GOLD LTD   70
SLP   SABLE PLATINUM LTD   70
KBO   Kibo Mining plc   71
BSS   BSI Steel Limited   72
MRF   MERAFE RESOURCES LTD   75
JSC   Jasco Electron Hldgs Ltd   76
ESR   Esorfranki Limited   78
WEZ   WESIZWE PLATINUM LTD   78
HUG   HUGE GROUP LTD   80
SVB   Silverbridge Holdings   80
GIJ   Gijima Group Limited   81
PCT   Prescient Limited   87
ING   Ingenuity Property Inv   88
IRA   INFRASORS HOLDINGS LTD   95
NCS   Nictus Ltd   95
OAO   OANDO PLC   95
ACE   Accentuate Limited   98
CDZ   Cadiz Hldgs Ltd   98
TTO   TRUSTCO GROUP HLDGS LTD   99

Any objections to removing those?
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Orca

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2013, 04:54:33 pm »
It is not only SaiyanZ. Of the top 10 there are 6 investors that would not be there. Five with 1c stocks and one with a 12c stock that all doubled.
Had that money been "real money", I can assure you that they would not have bought them. Or in reality it could not have been possible to purchase them due to lack of sellers at those volumes.
This is all you can possibly learn if you are trying to learn anything about gambling your clients money as a Fund Manager.
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Orca

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2013, 07:19:11 pm »
Looking at this Bid and Buy spread, I find it quite difficult to believe.
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Orca

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2013, 07:38:18 pm »
This one is even worse. Quite a few guys had this and they are winning. Look at the number of bidders. Almost Nix, Nada, Fokol.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 07:45:56 pm by Orca »
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yossarian

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2013, 11:13:20 am »
Since the goal is (or appears to be) realism I suggest you don't exclude penny shares.  Instead simply limit possible buys to:

  • Total daily purchase of a particular stock limited to half (or so) of the previous daily volume.
  • Price: average of previous day's price (maybe a weighted average if you've got the figures.)  Will help eliminate outliers
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 11:17:09 am by yossarian »
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Orca

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2013, 11:20:55 am »
Quote from: qriffin on December 18, 2013, 08:00:44 pm
Quote from: Orca on December 18, 2013, 07:19:11 pm
Looking at this Bid and Buy spread, I find it quite difficult to believe.

Funny how you don't also mention the volume of MRI traded today 9.5 Million
That equates to a mere R1.1m traded for the whole day.  :'(
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gcr

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2013, 03:34:00 pm »
I don't necessarily concur that we should exclude penny stocks. Also if Patrick can look at his system in the sense that if someone buys/sells penny stocks and there are no physical trades on the real market then the buyer/seller would not be permitted to buy/sell that particulate counter. Similarly if you have a large holding of one of the penny stocks you can't dump your holdings in Patrick's system until there is a physical sale and your sale would be limited to the physical sale. Similarly if someone on day 1 of the competition places an order for a 1 cent stock with the first allocation of R 100,000 and the physical sales are not there then the order to purchase is limited to the physical volumes of the day. Some penny stocks can give good returns and can be a company of tomorrow - in the '90's I bought Tiger Wheels for R.57 cents and sold them 8 years later at around R 21.00 before they expanded to rapidly and got into financial difficulties. Maybe Patrick can create an exception report and each of the cases is looked at on its merits rather than using a blanket approach, after all why penalize a person who buys a penny stock early in the year and then sits the ride out to end of year and the tax aspect may well prove to be a great leveler 
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tgg78703

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2013, 09:35:00 pm »
keep in mind that the programme that manages all of this must not take a life time of work each day

https://www.sanlamitrade.co.za/Competition/CompetitionBlurb.aspx?lan=eng

There are other competitions as well look at their rules.

But no sane investor will invest in shares outside of some limits, so top 100 is an option, other option is split the competition, real investors, traders,gamblers.

It should be easier have a programme running 3 or 4 different categories than trying to do track volumes and crap like that.

 
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Patrick

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2013, 09:02:09 am »
Quote from: tgg78703 on December 19, 2013, 09:35:00 pm
keep in mind that the programme that manages all of this must not take a life time of work each day

 :TU: all those points mentioned earlier would be great, but I'd have to give up my day job... I'll do as much as I can to make it as realistic as possible, but I really don't think any investment club manager buying a 1c or 2c would be realistic...
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Patrick

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2013, 10:01:52 am »
Quote from: qriffin on December 20, 2013, 09:05:22 am
Quote from: Patrick on December 20, 2013, 09:02:09 am
Quote from: tgg78703 on December 19, 2013, 09:35:00 pm
keep in mind that the programme that manages all of this must not take a life time of work each day

 :TU: all those points mentioned earlier would be great, but I'd have to give up my day job... I'll do as much as I can to make it as realistic as possible, but I really don't think any investment club manager buying a 1c or 2c would be realistic...

Patrick you should just instead of removing penny shares from the competition set limits to the value of those shares you can buy. Set eg. R100k - R250k being the most investors can spend on single a penny share under R1 and no penny share of different companies can be bought at the same value. eg TCS @ 1c - BIO @ 1c - NUT @ 1c

Everyone in the competition will be able to keep a check like they do now on those not playing in the spirit of the game and you can reduce their holding in these companies and refund them to invest elsewhere

With selling added that won't have much effect. Someone buys R100k at 1c, sells at 2c, buys at 1c etc. and the whole competition is irrelevant... Limiting to the actual number of shares traded will be very tough on the running of the contest.
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gcr

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2013, 10:40:00 am »
The very essence of this competition is its downfall - that is the objective is to end up as first on the list by whatever legitimate means possible and since the competition embodied all counters other than SSF, CFD and warrants it was going to be manipulated in the quest to win. Maybe the competition needs to be split into two; one leg would be the investor type person where penny stocks are excluded and then run in parallel a clone but this caters for the penny stocks and up front you make your choice as to which grouping you want to be incorporated into, and you can't switch mid year from one group to the other. Alternatively you could enter yourself into either leg but the leg that has greater gravitas is the investor leg - the other being for gamblers.
Tax must apply on both legs ??? 
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Orca

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Re: Rules for next year
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2013, 01:26:18 pm »
Six of the top 10 are penny share holders of which 5 are 1c that doubled to 2c. This already tells you that 1c stock holders will always be in the top 10. If this is allowed then most participants will in future buy 1c stocks and make a mockery of the competition and the genuine investors will not bother to partake.
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