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General Category => The Investor Challenge => Topic started by: tgg78703 on December 17, 2013, 08:19:07 pm
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Don,t know if you have posted them yet.
But i have a feeling that next year will be a different kettle of fish, no cml, no satrix.
Most top shares are at a high, The only ones major down are gold (and that cost me) but will they recover
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Certainly next year will pose a challenge regarding the unsustainable growth that we have currently been experiencing in the emerging market front, I'm sure the correction of our market is going to be substantial so it will be interesting to see who comes out ahead.
I remember reading that buying and selling of shares will be allowed, which will allow for some profit taking :)
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Like this year plus:
- Selling allowed, but tax will be taken in to account on the leaderboard
- Nothing that trades for under R1
- Unrealistic transactions can be rolled back on forum consensus. (last year we had some freak prices for a few minutes)
- Nothing that trades for under R1
May be more to come, I'll have to see how testing goes. This year ends on Friday, next year begins on the 6th of Jan, I'll open it up for testing as soon as I've put all the pieces together.
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It's above at the moment so it should be ok, the list of under R1 today is the following:
GIY Giyani Gold Corporation 0
BIO BIOSCIENCE BRANDS LTD 1
NUT Nutritional Holdings Ltd 1
PNG Pinnacle Point Group Ltd 1
SHB Sherbourne Capital Ltd 1
SKY SEA KAY HOLDINGS LTD 1
SLL Stella Vista Tech Ltd 1
STA STRATCORP LTD 1
PLL PLATFIELDS LIMITED 2
TCS Total Client Services Ld 2
1TM 1TIME HOLDINGS LTD 3
FRT FARITEC HOLDINGS LTD 3
BEG Beige Holdings Limited 4
ATR AFRICA CELLULAR TOWERS 5
AWT Awethu Breweries Ltd 5
AEA AFRICAN EAGLE RES PLC 6
BNT BONATLA PROPERTY HLDGS 7
SAH South African Coal Minin 7
ADW AFRICAN DAWN CAPITAL LTD 9
BIK BRIKOR LTD 9
FSE Firestone Energy Limited 9
WTL WILLIAM TELL HOLDINGS LT 9
ERB ERBACON INV HLDGS LTD 10
SQE SQUARE ONE SOLUTIONS GRP 10
FUU First Uranium Corp 11
MRI Mine Restoration Inv Ltd 12
BFS BLUE FINANCIAL SERVICES 13
LAB LABAT AFRICA LTD 13
MMH MIRANDA MINERAL HLDGS LD 13
RBA RBA HOLDINGS LTD 14
WEA WG Wearne Ltd 14
CMO CHROMETCO LTD 15
JDH John Daniel Holdings Ltd 15
PSV PSV HOLDINGS LTD 16
QPG Quantum Prop Group Ltd 19
DON DON GROUP LTD 20
FCR Ferrum Crescent Limited 20
MOR Morvest Business Grp Ltd 20
SAN SANYATI HOLDINGS LTD 21
ILE Imbalie Beauty Limited 23
PPE PURPLE CAPITAL LTD 23
AHL AH-VEST Limited 24
SCL Sacoil Holdings Ltd 25
SLO SOUTHERN ELECTRICITY CO 26
CMA Command Holdings Limited 27
ORE ORION REAL ESTATE LTD 30
PMV PRIMESERV GROUP LTD 31
CSP Chemical Specialities Ld 33
ANS Ansys Limited 34
BWI B&W INSTRUMENT & ELEC LD 35
SDH Securedata Holdings Ltd 35
SNU SENTULA MINING LTD 35
TAW TAWANA RESOURCES NL 36
UBU Ububele Holdings Ltd 36
VIL Village Main Reef GM Co 40
ANA Adrenna Property Grp Ltd 45
PKH Protech Khuthele Hldgs 45
MNY MONEY WEB HOLDINGS LTD 46
PZG Pamodzi Gold Limited 50
SKJ Sekunjalo Inv Ltd 50
WKF WORKFORCE HOLDINGS LTD 50
GDN GOODERSON LEISURE CORP 52
ISB Insimbi Ref & Alloy Sup 59
JBL JUBILEE PLATINUM PLC 62
IPS IPSA GROUP PLC 65
ISA ISA Holdings Limited 65
TLM TELEMASTER HOLDINGS LTD 65
WNH Winhold Ltd 65
EPS Eastern Platinum Ltd 66
VMK VERIMARK HOLDINGS LTD 69
BAU Bauba Platinum Limited 70
DLV Dorbyl Ltd 70
GBG GREAT BASIN GOLD LTD 70
SLP SABLE PLATINUM LTD 70
KBO Kibo Mining plc 71
BSS BSI Steel Limited 72
MRF MERAFE RESOURCES LTD 75
JSC Jasco Electron Hldgs Ltd 76
ESR Esorfranki Limited 78
WEZ WESIZWE PLATINUM LTD 78
HUG HUGE GROUP LTD 80
SVB Silverbridge Holdings 80
GIJ Gijima Group Limited 81
PCT Prescient Limited 87
ING Ingenuity Property Inv 88
IRA INFRASORS HOLDINGS LTD 95
NCS Nictus Ltd 95
OAO OANDO PLC 95
ACE Accentuate Limited 98
CDZ Cadiz Hldgs Ltd 98
TTO TRUSTCO GROUP HLDGS LTD 99
Any objections to removing those?
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It is not only SaiyanZ. Of the top 10 there are 6 investors that would not be there. Five with 1c stocks and one with a 12c stock that all doubled.
Had that money been "real money", I can assure you that they would not have bought them. Or in reality it could not have been possible to purchase them due to lack of sellers at those volumes.
This is all you can possibly learn if you are trying to learn anything about gambling your clients money as a Fund Manager.
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Looking at this Bid and Buy spread, I find it quite difficult to believe.
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This one is even worse. Quite a few guys had this and they are winning. Look at the number of bidders. Almost Nix, Nada, Fokol.
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Since the goal is (or appears to be) realism I suggest you don't exclude penny shares. Instead simply limit possible buys to:
- Total daily purchase of a particular stock limited to half (or so) of the previous daily volume.
- Price: average of previous day's price (maybe a weighted average if you've got the figures.) Will help eliminate outliers
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Looking at this Bid and Buy spread, I find it quite difficult to believe.
Funny how you don't also mention the volume of MRI traded today 9.5 Million
That equates to a mere R1.1m traded for the whole day. :'(
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I don't necessarily concur that we should exclude penny stocks. Also if Patrick can look at his system in the sense that if someone buys/sells penny stocks and there are no physical trades on the real market then the buyer/seller would not be permitted to buy/sell that particulate counter. Similarly if you have a large holding of one of the penny stocks you can't dump your holdings in Patrick's system until there is a physical sale and your sale would be limited to the physical sale. Similarly if someone on day 1 of the competition places an order for a 1 cent stock with the first allocation of R 100,000 and the physical sales are not there then the order to purchase is limited to the physical volumes of the day. Some penny stocks can give good returns and can be a company of tomorrow - in the '90's I bought Tiger Wheels for R.57 cents and sold them 8 years later at around R 21.00 before they expanded to rapidly and got into financial difficulties. Maybe Patrick can create an exception report and each of the cases is looked at on its merits rather than using a blanket approach, after all why penalize a person who buys a penny stock early in the year and then sits the ride out to end of year and the tax aspect may well prove to be a great leveler
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keep in mind that the programme that manages all of this must not take a life time of work each day
https://www.sanlamitrade.co.za/Competition/CompetitionBlurb.aspx?lan=eng
There are other competitions as well look at their rules.
But no sane investor will invest in shares outside of some limits, so top 100 is an option, other option is split the competition, real investors, traders,gamblers.
It should be easier have a programme running 3 or 4 different categories than trying to do track volumes and crap like that.
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keep in mind that the programme that manages all of this must not take a life time of work each day
:TU: all those points mentioned earlier would be great, but I'd have to give up my day job... I'll do as much as I can to make it as realistic as possible, but I really don't think any investment club manager buying a 1c or 2c would be realistic...
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keep in mind that the programme that manages all of this must not take a life time of work each day
:TU: all those points mentioned earlier would be great, but I'd have to give up my day job... I'll do as much as I can to make it as realistic as possible, but I really don't think any investment club manager buying a 1c or 2c would be realistic...
Patrick you should just instead of removing penny shares from the competition set limits to the value of those shares you can buy. Set eg. R100k - R250k being the most investors can spend on single a penny share under R1 and no penny share of different companies can be bought at the same value. eg TCS @ 1c - BIO @ 1c - NUT @ 1c
Everyone in the competition will be able to keep a check like they do now on those not playing in the spirit of the game and you can reduce their holding in these companies and refund them to invest elsewhere
With selling added that won't have much effect. Someone buys R100k at 1c, sells at 2c, buys at 1c etc. and the whole competition is irrelevant... Limiting to the actual number of shares traded will be very tough on the running of the contest.
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The very essence of this competition is its downfall - that is the objective is to end up as first on the list by whatever legitimate means possible and since the competition embodied all counters other than SSF, CFD and warrants it was going to be manipulated in the quest to win. Maybe the competition needs to be split into two; one leg would be the investor type person where penny stocks are excluded and then run in parallel a clone but this caters for the penny stocks and up front you make your choice as to which grouping you want to be incorporated into, and you can't switch mid year from one group to the other. Alternatively you could enter yourself into either leg but the leg that has greater gravitas is the investor leg - the other being for gamblers.
Tax must apply on both legs ???
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Six of the top 10 are penny share holders of which 5 are 1c that doubled to 2c. This already tells you that 1c stock holders will always be in the top 10. If this is allowed then most participants will in future buy 1c stocks and make a mockery of the competition and the genuine investors will not bother to partake.
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Six of the top 10 are penny share holders of which 5 are 1c that doubled to 2c. This already tells you that 1c stock holders will always be in the top 10. If this is allowed then most participants will in future buy 1c stocks and make a mockery of the competition and the genuine investors will not bother to partake.
By the same token those who have bought penny stocks to win the competition may well also not participate next year because of the rules, so it makes sense to split the competition in two - the serious investors are happy and the gamblers are happy
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Six of the top 10 are penny share holders of which 5 are 1c that doubled to 2c. This already tells you that 1c stock holders will always be in the top 10. If this is allowed then most participants will in future buy 1c stocks and make a mockery of the competition and the genuine investors will not bother to partake.
By the same token those who have bought penny stocks to win the competition may well also not participate next year because of the rules, so it makes sense to split the competition in two - the serious investors are happy and the gamblers are happy
Good, because the Penny guys are few. I went according to the introduction page and invested accordingly. I would not think of gambling public money. Even less, my family and friends money. Some people did not bother to read it.
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as with any game there are always arseholes, most of us played the game within the ethics, some not
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I don't know about arseholes much... Personally, I "invested" in AH-vest based on some personal connections, and the fact that it was at an attractive price point. It recovered slowly, over 6 months, to similar levels it held a year ago. Hardly the same as buying a 1c share and seeing it double in value in a day or two ::) While I concede that the volumes traded is not realistic, there is no way I could have exploited a loophole in the game way back in May. Some of the comments here really do sound like sour grapes ;D
At a glance, there are several interesting shares in the sub-R1 list. Jasco, Gijima and Cadiz come to mind. I'd say cap it at 10c rather than R1.
I get far more upset at guys having ETFs in their portfolios. Perhaps they didn't expect that Patrick would make it visible for all to see 8)
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I don't know about arseholes much... Personally, I "invested" in AH-vest based on some personal connections, and the fact that it was at an attractive price point. It recovered slowly, over 6 months, to similar levels it held a year ago. Hardly the same as buying a 1c share and seeing it double in value in a day or two ::) While I concede that the volumes traded is not realistic, there is no way I could have exploited a loophole in the game way back in May. Some of the comments here really do sound like sour grapes ;D
At a glance, there are several interesting shares in the sub-R1 list. Jasco, Gijima and Cadiz come to mind. I'd say cap it at 10c rather than R1.
I get far more upset at guys having ETFs in their portfolios. Perhaps they didn't expect that Patrick would make it visible for all to see 8)
would that be "insider trading"? ;) ??? ::) ;D
Maybe we should set a minimum price for shares that qualify, such as 50c (or whatever) and also a liquidity low level for a previous period, such as at least R10m traded per month over the past year (just an example)
I also believe we should not be allowed to trade, if the prices are not updating, as often happens on a Monday
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I don't know about arseholes much... Personally, I "invested" in AH-vest based on some personal connections, and the fact that it was at an attractive price point. It recovered slowly, over 6 months, to similar levels it held a year ago. Hardly the same as buying a 1c share and seeing it double in value in a day or two ::) While I concede that the volumes traded is not realistic, there is no way I could have exploited a loophole in the game way back in May. Some of the comments here really do sound like sour grapes ;D
At a glance, there are several interesting shares in the sub-R1 list. Jasco, Gijima and Cadiz come to mind. I'd say cap it at 10c rather than R1.
I get far more upset at guys having ETFs in their portfolios. Perhaps they didn't expect that Patrick would make it visible for all to see 8)
would that be "insider trading"? ;) ??? ::) ;D
Maybe we should set a minimum price for shares that qualify, such as 50c (or whatever) and also a liquidity low level for a previous period, such as at least R10m traded per month over the past year (just an example)
I also believe we should not be allowed to trade, if the prices are not updating, as often happens on a Monday
No it wouldn't. But what I find far more insulting is when a chop like tgg* comments on arseholes, while most of his investment is focused on the mining sector. It does not take a genius to realise that I had a far more balanced portfolio, and despite the "luck" with AH-vest, I would still have been miles ahead of him.
I played the game with the knowledge that we'd be limited by a 1-year cutoff. Which is why I find it laughable that so many members bleat that they wouldn't have risked investing in penny stocks.
Rather than be a chop about pennies, prevent players from buying the same shares twice within six months.
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I don't know about arseholes much... Personally, I "invested" in AH-vest based on some personal connections, and the fact that it was at an attractive price point. It recovered slowly, over 6 months, to similar levels it held a year ago. Hardly the same as buying a 1c share and seeing it double in value in a day or two ::) While I concede that the volumes traded is not realistic, there is no way I could have exploited a loophole in the game way back in May. Some of the comments here really do sound like sour grapes ;D
At a glance, there are several interesting shares in the sub-R1 list. Jasco, Gijima and Cadiz come to mind. I'd say cap it at 10c rather than R1.
I get far more upset at guys having ETFs in their portfolios. Perhaps they didn't expect that Patrick would make it visible for all to see 8)
If Patrick could not forsee the rules being broken this year (guys negative selling & 1c shares being bought) opening up the competition to include trading for next year is going to bring on lots of other unforseen issues eg. Who's going to make sure of the share bid/buy volumes at prices being aquired? Maybe running two competitions 1 investing and 1 trading with shares under 10c being made unavavilable might be the way to go. I wish everyone the best of luck in next years competition with a reminder, doing well in the stock markets is not dependend upon one's intelligence but attitude.
Yeah. I think you probably broke the rules more than many other players did, if ethics or intelligence comes into the equation :D
Rather than trying to regulate or automate the game to pieces, I would prefer that a panel of judges rate our portfolios, so that lopsided or unrealistic investments can be excluded from the podium.
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No it wouldn't. But what I find far more insulting is when a chop like tgg* comments on arseholes, while most of his investment is focused on the mining sector. It does not take a genius to realise that I had a far more balanced portfolio, and despite the "luck" with AH-vest, I would still have been miles ahead of him.
I played the game with the knowledge that we'd be limited by a 1-year cutoff. Which is why I find it laughable that so many members bleat that they wouldn't have risked investing in penny stocks.
Rather than be a chop about pennies, prevent players from buying the same shares twice within six months.
you seem to have decided that tgg's comment was directed at you - why?
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Please enlighten me as to how you reason me to have broken the rules more than anyone else. If you remove the profits from MRI & RBA from my portfolio I'm still in the lead and as to commenting on others investment strategies I think you wasting your time and insulting yourself. We all here to learn if not why take part. I'm sure there are many other forums the likes of you can go TROLL.
Chill buddy. I'm just saying you've WON on the basis of a massive penny share investment. Well done.
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No it wouldn't. But what I find far more insulting is when a chop like tgg* comments on arseholes, while most of his investment is focused on the mining sector. It does not take a genius to realise that I had a far more balanced portfolio, and despite the "luck" with AH-vest, I would still have been miles ahead of him.
I played the game with the knowledge that we'd be limited by a 1-year cutoff. Which is why I find it laughable that so many members bleat that they wouldn't have risked investing in penny stocks.
Rather than be a chop about pennies, prevent players from buying the same shares twice within six months.
you seem to have decided that tgg's comment was directed at you - why?
I didn't decide that at all. You assume too much. I'm here for the same reasons you are.
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No it wouldn't. But what I find far more insulting is when a chop like tgg* comments on arseholes, while most of his investment is focused on the mining sector. It does not take a genius to realise that I had a far more balanced portfolio, and despite the "luck" with AH-vest, I would still have been miles ahead of him.
I played the game with the knowledge that we'd be limited by a 1-year cutoff. Which is why I find it laughable that so many members bleat that they wouldn't have risked investing in penny stocks.
Rather than be a chop about pennies, prevent players from buying the same shares twice within six months.
you seem to have decided that tgg's comment was directed at you - why?
I didn't decide that at all. You assume too much. I'm here for the same reasons you are.
well, I understood tgg's comment differently then - aimed at the 1c buyers with shares that have zero liquidity - I would agree that those people are farking up the contest and would not call tgg a 'chop' for that reason
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I personally don't have a prob with Griffin's stocks as they could have gone down. I do have a problem with the 1c stocks that could only go up and a small chance of getting suspended.
Well done Griffin. :TU:
The Topi and Indi are benchmarks.
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Having checked the top guys holdings, I am pleasantly surprised that most 1c holders have disappeared thanks to the 2c retreating back to 1c on the last day. Pure fluke.
In my personal view, I would regard the following as the top 10 winners.
1) Griffin
2) AMT
3) DGrobbs
4) Frikkie
5) Jaymeb. He has ducked after his very first purchase. Strange how he got here with cash.
6) SJ
7) Vlad
eight) Dex
9) Sparkz
10) SuperVan
As I stated. This is my view only. You be the judge. Sorry Dex, but eight with a bracket shows up as a smoking face. 8)
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I don't know about arseholes much... Personally, I "invested" in AH-vest based on some personal connections, and the fact that it was at an attractive price point. It recovered slowly, over 6 months, to similar levels it held a year ago. Hardly the same as buying a 1c share and seeing it double in value in a day or two ::) While I concede that the volumes traded is not realistic, there is no way I could have exploited a loophole in the game way back in May. Some of the comments here really do sound like sour grapes ;D
At a glance, there are several interesting shares in the sub-R1 list. Jasco, Gijima and Cadiz come to mind. I'd say cap it at 10c rather than R1.
I get far more upset at guys having ETFs in their portfolios. Perhaps they didn't expect that Patrick would make it visible for all to see 8)
hey frikkie, het ek met jou gepraat. moet nou nie asb frikkie van brakpan wees nie. die aandele wat jy noem het almal hulle gat gesien hiedie jaar, sowel as my goud endevour.
So kalmeer asb bietjie chappie. Ek moet seker nou ook vir jou vra of jy bietjie pui is