Author Topic: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?  (Read 24436 times)

Bundu

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2013, 03:43:12 pm »
tgg78703 - if you were a seller of tcs you would argue that the real value of the company is 3 cents. Last week there were buyers for Alert Steel at something like 14 cents and sellers in the 60 and 70 cent range - what was/is the real value of Alert. Both are speculative shares so one will often get wide bids/offers prices and that the fund of have some spec shares in ones portfolio (real portfolio not this competition portfolio) that if your punt does come off you can make significant amounts of money, but you need to limit such spec shares - I limit my spec shares to 3 to 4% of total portfolio

If you're a seller, surely you can only sell to the available buyers - works the same when you try and sell ANYTHING.
If we go the tgg78703 route, which I agree with, the seller still gets the benefit that the specific buyer will take ALL his shares at that price, which mostly is not the case when you sell larger lots of shares that don't trade a lot
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

tgg78703

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2013, 04:38:00 pm »
at least leave the alt x shares out of the game

Manipulation is possible.

Selco has buyers at 17 and sellers at 44.
Bid   17
Bid volume   154880
Offer   44
Offer volume   8444
All trading data is 15 minutes delayed

So I go to the jse and buy a few selco at 44 and them offer them for sale at 18.

I then join the game and Buy 2.7m selco at 18, as quoted on the jse.

I go back to the jse and buy my few selco at 18 and a few at the next offer which is 44.

Back at the game my R500 000 becomes R1.22m , 244% growth. But in reality I can only sell 154880 of them at 17c

Patrick

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2013, 05:20:51 pm »
at least leave the alt x shares out of the game

Thoughts from the others?

tgg78703 do you know where I could find a list of the altx shares?

tgg78703

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Goliath

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2013, 07:26:50 pm »
at least leave the alt x shares out of the game

Thoughts from the others?

tgg78703 do you know where I could find a list of the altx shares?

Not all of them, just the really pennystock stuff! Think 2 or 3 of my shares is on the Alt X  :)

Patrick

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2013, 10:21:40 pm »
Ok let's look at the first issue, hiding your holdings. Since it seems that practically everyone wants everything visible I suggest the following. Instead of allowing the holdings to be hidden, we allow members to put a delay on the holdings, so you can only see what they've bought a week or two (is that long enough) later.

Now as this would be a rule change mid-competition, something I don't really like, we handle it democratically. I'll start a vote next week, and put a notice in the monthly deposit email asking members to vote. Then we give it until mid June to give everyone a chance to vote. As it's a change, we'll deal with it like a constitution change. Ie we need a two-thirds majority to change the rule.

Does that work for most?

On the penny share issue I'll let the debate continue for a while since feelings still appear mixed.

gcr

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2013, 09:26:41 am »
I would not exclude penny shares - after all this is an investor competition with an end date of December. Let those who wish to buy penny stock do so and lets see how successful they are when competition ends. Also those who wish to purchase shares on the open market to try and move the price for the competition then maybe they must do it. If you are not in front of the curve chances are you may get burnt trying to move the market and also be aware that there may be other people on the market who are also trying to influence the market and may have deep pockets
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein

Bundu

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2013, 06:10:32 pm »
I think liquidity is a greater problem than penny stocks (although they are often the same stock)


edit: Alternatively, we could value a portfolio using the price of the highest buyer - that would knock some portfolios down to size - and in reality, that is what a portfolios value truly is at any moment
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 06:13:55 pm by Bundu »
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

tgg78703

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2013, 06:13:36 pm »
I don,t think a vote is needed about keeping a portfolio private, just add up the private vs non private portfolios and the majority wins.

This is after all just a game, it is not that there is money to be won. It is about broadening your horizons and helping each other gain more insight into investing.

So how is a private portfolio going to help 

Bundu

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2013, 06:14:57 pm »
I don,t think a vote is needed about keeping a portfolio private, just add up the private vs non private portfolios and the majority wins.

This is after all just a game, it is not that there is money to be won. It is about broadening your horizons and helping each other gain more insight into investing.

So how is a private portfolio going to help

I agree +1
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

tgg78703

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2013, 06:20:56 pm »
I think liquidity is a greater problem than penny stocks (although they are often the same stock)


edit: Alternatively, we could value a portfolio using the price of the highest buyer - that would knock some portfolios down to size - and in reality, that is what a portfolios value truly is at any moment

Agree this after all an investor game , not speculator game

tgg78703

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2013, 06:41:02 pm »
see that sll had a 50 % gain today on a trade of 1500 shares, wtf who buys for R45 plus costs on the jse. That trade must be related to a game or drunken bet somewhere. that trade at 3c cost about 9c a share.

That share has not traded near those levels since about 2009, when it was 20c. So someone is going to wait a bit to recoup or double R45

Bundu

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2013, 06:58:33 pm »
yip..... and in the past 6 months, only R130k of their shares have been traded - 6MONTHS!
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Aragorn

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2013, 09:08:10 am »
Let's have the vote for private or non-private. I believe that all portfolio's should be visible - it is afterall just a game. And to insinuate that someone does not want another to see their portfolio is a bit pie in the sky, as you only really want to check on some of the top guys as to "how did they get that right" or 'what did they buy to give them a boost". You can't then go and replicate their portfolio as it will be too late in the game - the profit has already been made.

Regarding Penny shares - I agree with a number of the posts here, but we can't have it both ways. There are many solutions to solve the issues listed, and we can't have them all. One example - We need to consider if we should limit the trades to only liquid shares or do we continue with all shares. If we decide on only liquid shares, Patrick will have an admin nightmare in trying to maintain a list of liquid shares. What if a liquid share becomes illiquid? how do we treat those who had already purchased it - do we now refuse them the option to add more of this share to their portfolio - do we dump them for cash at last price? Where do you draw the actual line between liquid and illiquid? Who will monitor this? The will then be endless debates on those "marginal" items - are they liquid or illiquid. If we stay as we are with all shares, we then live with the consequences of "lucky punts".

I do believe that the competion may require additional refinement to make it more realistic, but as long as we are all playing on the same field with the same rules, then all things are equal.
Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall.

tgg78703

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Re: Meaning of greyed out names - Leaderboard ?
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2013, 11:56:07 am »
From leader to 40 % loss on one trade