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General Category => The Investor Challenge => Topic started by: tgg78703 on April 23, 2013, 09:58:58 pm

Title: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on April 23, 2013, 09:58:58 pm
these competitions have always had a issue in the past where someone buys shares that are not very liquid, e,g . If I had bought selco with all my money I would be 131% up today.

but that not be a true reflection as they hardly trade and there would be no hope of me selling or realising my profit.

Should you not have a cap on purchases related to the shares average volume
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on April 24, 2013, 08:41:53 am
Thoughts from the rest?

How often would you be able to do this?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Krypt0n1te on April 24, 2013, 10:15:31 am
My view is that this is an "investor" challenge, and I for one treat it like that. As the dude in charge of the investment club I'm trying to simulate what I would've done if I were to invest R400k worth of our money.
OP does have a valid point though, sure his club member would be ecstatic over that return, but less of they lost 80% odd on the day.

I know I will never win this competition as one of the guys with all their money in a single equity is bound to get it right, I use this as a measure against myself and the ALSI to see my performance.


Just to quickly derail here....
Why not clone this competition and make a trading simulation! I not sure how much work that would entail, but I'm pretty sure you going to create huge traffic and maybe really earn some moola here for all the hard work you have put in.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on April 24, 2013, 10:41:16 am
It would be beneficial to only be able to trade in liquid shares, but that would bring on extra admin on the part of Patrick who would need to maintain a list of liquid shares as opposed to a feed of all shares - same with suspended items. This could then become a daily task and I believe a waste of effort. I don't believe that those who will only buy into illiquid stocks will see a continual rise in value over a year - i.e. attempt to get bragging rights by winning the competition.
I second Krypt0n1te in what he states regarding measuring oneself against ALSI. It may be a competition, but I feel its against yourself (your current actual investment activities) vs what you could have done.

And 85 punters entered so far - well done.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Stefanmuller on April 24, 2013, 11:42:43 am
My view is that this is an "investor" challenge, and I for one treat it like that. As the dude in charge of the investment club I'm trying to simulate what I would've done if I were to invest R400k worth of our money.
OP does have a valid point though, sure his club member would be ecstatic over that return, but less of they lost 80% odd on the day.

I know I will never win this competition as one of the guys with all their money in a single equity is bound to get it right, I use this as a measure against myself and the ALSI to see my performance.


Just to quickly derail here....
Why not clone this competition and make a trading simulation! I not sure how much work that would entail, but I'm pretty sure you going to create huge traffic and maybe really earn some moola here for all the hard work you have put in.

Cool, going to try it out!

Sanlam used to have a similar challenge like this. You only had a once off amount to start with, lets say R100 000, and the winner is the person with the most value at the end date. Some trading were allowed, but IIRC you could only sell if you sell ALL of a certain share, and you could only buy more of a certain share, if you first sell them all. Kind of like a treating your investments as seperate batches. I would say that allowing at least an all sell of certain share would make sense, because if you made a bad investment in a share that continues to drop in price, the natural option would be to sell it to minimise your losses.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on April 24, 2013, 12:34:10 pm
My view is that this is an "investor" challenge, and I for one treat it like that. As the dude in charge of the investment club I'm trying to simulate what I would've done if I were to invest R400k worth of our money.
OP does have a valid point though, sure his club member would be ecstatic over that return, but less of they lost 80% odd on the day.

I know I will never win this competition as one of the guys with all their money in a single equity is bound to get it right, I use this as a measure against myself and the ALSI to see my performance.


Just to quickly derail here....
Why not clone this competition and make a trading simulation! I not sure how much work that would entail, but I'm pretty sure you going to create huge traffic and maybe really earn some moola here for all the hard work you have put in.

Cool, going to try it out!

Sanlam used to have a similar challenge like this. You only had a once off amount to start with, lets say R100 000, and the winner is the person with the most value at the end date. Some trading were allowed, but IIRC you could only sell if you sell ALL of a certain share, and you could only buy more of a certain share, if you first sell them all. Kind of like a treating your investments as seperate batches. I would say that allowing at least an all sell of certain share would make sense, because if you made a bad investment in a share that continues to drop in price, the natural option would be to sell it to minimise your losses.

How would the tax man see that sale? Would that on it's own be enough to class you as a trader?

Maybe next year I'll run a trading contest, either in parallel or integrated with this one. Allow sales, but have two leaderboards, one for the investors, and one for traders. It might be interesting to see how they compare.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Stefanmuller on April 24, 2013, 01:16:51 pm
My view is that this is an "investor" challenge, and I for one treat it like that. As the dude in charge of the investment club I'm trying to simulate what I would've done if I were to invest R400k worth of our money.
OP does have a valid point though, sure his club member would be ecstatic over that return, but less of they lost 80% odd on the day.

I know I will never win this competition as one of the guys with all their money in a single equity is bound to get it right, I use this as a measure against myself and the ALSI to see my performance.


Just to quickly derail here....
Why not clone this competition and make a trading simulation! I not sure how much work that would entail, but I'm pretty sure you going to create huge traffic and maybe really earn some moola here for all the hard work you have put in.

Cool, going to try it out!

Sanlam used to have a similar challenge like this. You only had a once off amount to start with, lets say R100 000, and the winner is the person with the most value at the end date. Some trading were allowed, but IIRC you could only sell if you sell ALL of a certain share, and you could only buy more of a certain share, if you first sell them all. Kind of like a treating your investments as seperate batches. I would say that allowing at least an all sell of certain share would make sense, because if you made a bad investment in a share that continues to drop in price, the natural option would be to sell it to minimise your losses.

How would the tax man see that sale? Would that on it's own be enough to class you as a trader?

Maybe next year I'll run a trading contest, either in parallel or integrated with this one. Allow sales, but have two leaderboards, one for the investors, and one for traders. It might be interesting to see how they compare.

Well, if you are not actively selling your shares in order to make PROFIT, then you will not really be seen as a trader. You are allowed to sell your assets in order to limit or stop your losses (which is OK because there will not be any profit anyway). I also prefer a competition where it is more about smart investing than active trading. But as there is a leaderboard and there is a competition, one would like to be able to sell a share that is consisitently going into the negative, instead of holding on to it. In real life I would probably hold on to a share for at least 3 months before actually selling it, and as this is a 12 month competition I guess it is OK. With the Sanlam investment challenge, I think the only reason for the limited trading allowance was exactly to limit excessive trading and thus level the playing field between "normal" people and actual active traders that sit night and day. Also, I would think the software of the program would require a lot more sophistication as the trading increases. Only allowing people to sell if they dispose of all of a particular share, limits the amount of trading as one has to think twice before just selling. You could also not buy more of a share you currently had, unless you sold your current lot.


Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on April 25, 2013, 01:22:34 pm
Well, if you are not actively selling your shares in order to make PROFIT, then you will not really be seen as a trader. You are allowed to sell your assets in order to limit or stop your losses (which is OK because there will not be any profit anyway). I also prefer a competition where it is more about smart investing than active trading. But as there is a leaderboard and there is a competition, one would like to be able to sell a share that is consisitently going into the negative, instead of holding on to it. In real life I would probably hold on to a share for at least 3 months before actually selling it, and as this is a 12 month competition I guess it is OK. With the Sanlam investment challenge, I think the only reason for the limited trading allowance was exactly to limit excessive trading and thus level the playing field between "normal" people and actual active traders that sit night and day. Also, I would think the software of the program would require a lot more sophistication as the trading increases. Only allowing people to sell if they dispose of all of a particular share, limits the amount of trading as one has to think twice before just selling. You could also not buy more of a share you currently had, unless you sold your current lot.

Ah thanks for that! Maybe I should consider allowing sales for a loss then! I'll see. By next year we should all have a good idea as to the best format, this was just how I thought it should run for now.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on April 25, 2013, 10:32:08 pm
Maybe you should consider a sell option, any prudent investor will get out of the market if the tide turns and we have a 2009 all over. Or a certain sector that  is invested in makes a major dive.

The competition is only till december so it not like it is actually investing long term. You have long term shares , medium term shares and short term shares. For investor status  you will have to run it for 5 years.

Allow one sell of total holding in a share.

Also a thing to consider is the diff between buying and selling price. There are some shares that have almost a 10% diff. So I would suggest is that when your competition closes all investors are allocated the last price they could sell their shares for and not the last trade price. There are some small caps bought that be manipulated



Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on April 26, 2013, 11:13:14 am
It seems there is more support for selling than not selling, so most likely that'll happen next year as I don't want to change the rules during a comp run. There could be quite a lot of changes, let me know if you have more ideas. I may have a vote on a couple of topics later.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on April 26, 2013, 01:04:03 pm
If you allow for sales then I think it goes against the grain of the competition which is an "investment competition" and the very essence is to remain in a particular counter for the longer term rather than trying to turn this competition into a trading operation. If the tide turns because of a broad pull back chances are that it will affect all investors in the competition across the board. If one looks at the shares chosen by investors some have tried to pick penny shares with a view to making significant gains - but this is only likely to happen over the short term - so its a case of - you pays your money and you reap what you sow. If you do allow sales then maybe you should restrict it to only one sale a month - this could create an admin nightmare for yourself, and similar fees must be imposed as for buying of shares
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on April 26, 2013, 01:32:11 pm
If you allow for sales then I think it goes against the grain of the competition which is an "investment competition" and the very essence is to remain in a particular counter for the longer term rather than trying to turn this competition into a trading operation. If the tide turns because of a broad pull back chances are that it will affect all investors in the competition across the board. If one looks at the shares chosen by investors some have tried to pick penny shares with a view to making significant gains - but this is only likely to happen over the short term - so its a case of - you pays your money and you reap what you sow. If you do allow sales then maybe you should restrict it to only one sale a month - this could create an admin nightmare for yourself, and similar fees must be imposed as for buying of shares

My thinking was either one of two things, a) only allow selling at a loss (ie avoid the tax-man's definition of trading), or b) running two parallel leaderboards. One for traders and one for investors. If someone sells at profit they are automatically marked as a trader.

There's still a few months to iron this out so I'm sure we'll find something that works. My goal with this website was an education into investment, so I really didn't want it to be a trading contest. I feel investment is something South Africans don't think about enough, and even more so when it comes to equity investment, the best performing class.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on April 26, 2013, 01:44:34 pm
Agree with your sentiments - it serves little purpose bringing a trader mindset to an investment scenario
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on April 30, 2013, 05:25:07 pm
I just had a bright idea over a cold one. To limit competitors that punt their Grand Parents, Parents, Siblings and other elderly people's pension money into a Penny Stock gamble, the lowest 20% of the entrants must pay Patrick R150.00 at year end. Most of them will be here anyway. Then Patrick can pay the winner 10% of the takings. 
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moonraker on April 30, 2013, 08:15:39 pm
My thinking was either one of two things, a) only allow selling at a loss (ie avoid the tax-man's definition of trading), or b) running two parallel leaderboards. One for traders and one for investors. If someone sells at profit they are automatically marked as a trader.

There's still a few months to iron this out so I'm sure we'll find something that works. My goal with this website was an education into investment, so I really didn't want it to be a trading contest. I feel investment is something South Africans don't think about enough, and even more so when it comes to equity investment, the best performing class.
I think, selling at loss before the 3 year rule, will mean that one can't offset that loss against a capital gain. I say this because the annual exclusion rate  for instance, applies to both gains and losses i.e. cuts both ways, and so I assume would the 3 year rule.
Can anyone confirm ?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Hamster on May 01, 2013, 10:25:17 am
Question, since this is turning out to be quite fun, will you run/reset this comp every year?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on May 01, 2013, 01:00:35 pm
Definitely. I'll most likely put some ads on the site to make it self sustaining.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Hamster on May 02, 2013, 10:28:03 am
Awesome!

Btw, can you change the formatting of the money value on the leaderboard? The decimals are not set to two places (ie. round numbers display as R5000 instead of R5000.00 and 20c display as R0.2 instead of R0.20)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on May 02, 2013, 10:47:24 am
 ;D just caught my eye, we have a Peanut, a Nakedpeanut and a Hamster ;D have to keep them apart!
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on May 02, 2013, 12:15:55 pm
Hamster better be careful, there's a HoundDog around. We could always ask Robocop to keep an eye on things.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on May 02, 2013, 03:46:39 pm
Well done Patrick - I see the number of competitors has gone through 200 - that's awesum
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on May 02, 2013, 03:50:52 pm
Well done Patrick - I see the number of competitors has gone through 200 - that's awesum
I like
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1291131680_two-thumbs-up.jpg)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Hamster on May 04, 2013, 07:00:37 am
;D just caught my eye, we have a Peanut, a Nakedpeanut and a Hamster ;D have to keep them apart!

Sh*t's about to get REAL up in here!
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: BeatBuffet on May 05, 2013, 06:08:39 am
Guess who's in the top 5  8)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Diesel And Dust on May 09, 2013, 02:28:55 pm
Hi Patrick

Could you show the ALSI on the leaderboard so that we can see if we at least outperform the ALSI?

Transferred to requests :o

Also vote that share portfolios can't be hidden 8)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on May 09, 2013, 06:15:58 pm
How many people have more than one portfolio?

How about a table for the biggest gainers in a week ?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on May 10, 2013, 06:07:58 pm
How many people have more than one portfolio?

How about a table for the biggest gainers in a week ?

1) No idea.
2) Good idea, I'll see if I can do that.

Oh and my screeb is working but has a bright gold bar across the top. Does that also mean it's broken  ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on May 23, 2013, 03:52:58 pm
these competitions have always had a issue in the past where someone buys shares that are not very liquid, e,g . If I had bought selco with all my money I would be 131% up today.

but that not be a true reflection as they hardly trade and there would be no hope of me selling or realising my profit.

Should you not have a cap on purchases related to the shares average volume

Back on this issue again since we have some unrealistic numbers on top of the board. What if we had a minimum share price allowed for purchase. A value of R1 (just an example, could be anything) minimum would stop the really un-tradable penny shares, but still allow some of the altx board like OLG which actually does trade. Only for next year though...
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on May 23, 2013, 04:00:04 pm
The principles around CGT are that you pay on the total profit you make between base cost and selling prices (buying and selling brokerage is incorporated) so one is talking net profit. However if you sustain a loss in terms of share operations then that loss can be rolled over to the next tax year and can be used to low the CGT assessment
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on May 23, 2013, 04:04:33 pm
As I am a Fund Manager, I would surely not buy stocks at 1c for my investors. Especially not 1 or 3 stocks at that price.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on May 23, 2013, 06:03:14 pm
TCS.

Last 10 Trades of the day
Date   PDT   Price   Volume
23/05 17:00   OCP   3   0
23/05 13:13   AT   3   33,333

nut

Last 10 Trades of the day
Date   PDT   Price   Volume
23/05 17:00   OCP   2   0
23/05 09:12   AT   2   8,611

Maybe the entrant wants to prove a point. that 1c shares can do something, but is really not in the spirit of the game, so I ignore those positions when looking at the leaders
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on May 23, 2013, 08:30:53 pm
The Investor Challenge
Who's the best investment club chairman around.

This is the challenge. Not the individual gamblers with their 1c portfolios that jump up 300% in a day!!! They should be deleted from this as they did not read the above when they entered. Surely they know that at these prices they would NEVER get filled or be able to sell. The guy on top now goes from No 1 to No 240 in one day.
I know you agree with me Patrick, but we must get rid of them. Problem is How?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: SaiyanZ on May 23, 2013, 11:16:34 pm
It's a game, not real life. I don't really care what happens. It's just fun to do something different and play with the system. I waited for a couple stocks to hit 1c before I bought them. Tomorrow I may be down to 200th place. No worries.

Anyways, looking at the top 20, most people have the bulk of their cash invested in one or two stocks. How can picking a stock or two make someone the best investment club chairman? It's similar to what I did but their stocks just cost more and are less volatile.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on May 24, 2013, 08:36:42 am
Perhaps a suggestion to our fantastic administrator for an improvement that would negate exceptional items in this penny stock issue.
When shares are bought, one cannot purchase more shares than what were actually traded for that item in the previous (or current) trading period. That would prevent someone from investing 200K is a share that only traded 20K. That should level the playing field a bit without preventing someone from actually investing in such items.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on May 24, 2013, 09:08:07 am
At the moment all players are within the rules, but as tgg said earlier, it's not really within the spirit of the game.

Edit: Lets give it a little time. From next month the profiles will be open, so we can see who invested well and who is misusing the system. In any case, there's likely to be a fall from the top as quick as the rise to get there.

For next year there will have to be a filter to stop people from buying shares they generally could not, I'm still looking for a decent way to get those numbers. Is there a list somewhere of total monthly volume?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on May 24, 2013, 09:46:28 am
Maybe a simpler change to the rules going forward is that no more than 15% of ones portfolio may consist of penny stocks. We just need to be aware that by imposing too many rules, it has the potential to chase away entrants. This competition is all about "investor challenge" so sinking all your annual investments into penny stocks is not something a sane investor would do, and especially if it was their pension money. Would I "invest" 15% of my real portfolio into penny stocks or high risk stocks - not on your life, currently my portfolio has 1% in real high risk shares like Alert Steel and Poynting - but I will use them (if they stay where they are) next tax year to reduce CGT.
I would suggest that Patrick gets submissions from entrants as to rule changes required by entrants and that theses are consolidated and placed on this forum for debate and those that are carried are incorporated in the rules from 2014 onwards 8)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on May 24, 2013, 11:18:06 am
Sharenet has a list of liquid stocks in their challenge. Hint.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on May 24, 2013, 03:37:16 pm
The exploitation of the penny stocks is caused because the programme allows one to buy shares at the last traded price and not the available sellers price.

In the game I can buy a share for 1c if that was the last traded , but on the JSe the share will cost me 3c as that is what the sellers offer price is.

One example is slo, last traded 39, sellers 38 buyers 21.

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Shi on May 29, 2013, 12:48:24 pm
Already got a short list of what I want to buy next week when the next 100K becomes available. Hopefully they stay where they are for a little while longer.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on May 29, 2013, 01:10:24 pm
MTA has woken up from her slumber so watch out Patrick. Here I come.
Oh dear. Down goes my CML.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on May 29, 2013, 06:19:50 pm
What a run. Tired now. Only Patrick in front of me. He is my benchmark to beat. I hate loosing.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on May 29, 2013, 09:20:41 pm
What a run. Tired now. Only Patrick in front of me. He is my benchmark to beat. I hate loosing.

Finally some competition! Saturday is payday, are you buying more of the same or are you going to venture out of the tri-partite alliance  ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on May 30, 2013, 03:35:10 pm
Last I looked there were 299 competitors - not bad for a new competition - well done Patrick 8)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on May 30, 2013, 06:12:36 pm
What a run. Tired now. Only Patrick in front of me. He is my benchmark to beat. I hate loosing.

Finally some competition! Saturday is payday, are you buying more of the same or are you going to venture out of the tri-partite alliance  ;D

Same again. I know these stocks too well to diversify.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on May 31, 2013, 02:23:42 am
Last I looked there were 299 competitors - not bad for a new competition - well done Patrick 8)
300 up :TU:
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3734/female3002011.jpg)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on May 31, 2013, 10:37:04 am
Why is the site not updating prices
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on May 31, 2013, 10:41:14 am
The JSE equity price feed is down at the moment. Hopefully it'll be back soon.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 02, 2013, 01:10:15 pm
what happens if you buy cml today, price ex div on monday, dividend paid on friday
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 02, 2013, 01:22:13 pm
You'd lose out. For next year I'll probably have to look into closing the purchases outside of trading hours.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on June 02, 2013, 03:56:37 pm
Not sure how your system works but could use the first traded price per the morning auction
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 02, 2013, 06:28:58 pm
is it possible for you show shares that have gained or lost most since you started
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 03, 2013, 02:52:48 pm
is it possible for you show shares that have gained or lost most since you started
Only since they were first purchased. I don't record price fluctuations. Take a look here: http://www.investorchallenge.co.za/com_share_stats.php
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 03, 2013, 04:00:16 pm
interesting, see quite a few holders of a african bank and capitec
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 03, 2013, 05:01:26 pm
interesting, see quite a few holders of a african bank and capitec

Here's the top 30 in rand spent all time:
CML    8855573.2600
SAB    6507873.9700
CPI    5579029.7900
VOD    4243856.8100
CFR    4048109.4200
APN    3976631.2800
NPN    3836410.2400
SOL    3768124.7000
MTN    3667848.0700
WHL    3600735.7900
BIL    3513494.2700
OML    2921489.4700
ABL    2808355.1500
STX40    2787396.4700
STXIND    2564264.4200
FSR    2352061.2800
PNC    2318580.8100
SGL    2211416.4500
KIO    2169383.8000
BTI    2127108.5200
ANG    1976693.4600
AGL    1919571.3900
MSM    1796031.2900
BIO    1774552.9500
JDG    1743920.0200
CGR    1720180.7900
AIP    1708119.5600
SHP    1552253.1700
FBR    1548412.4300
STXDIV    1527328.7600
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 03, 2013, 08:56:07 pm
I appeal. CML should be my trademark stock. I have hyped it since 2010 when I posted my "Retiring" thread and every Tom Dick and Harry dissed me as it was an unknown stock. Now every Tom's Dick has it in their portfolio. This is my stock and  have copy write on it. >:D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on June 03, 2013, 10:14:42 pm
The sensible investor will pick a couple of shares which have consistently done well as bankers with a view to achieving a 15% portfolio growth p.a. ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 05, 2013, 11:18:59 am
MTA has woken up from her slumber so watch out Patrick. Here I come.
Oh dear. Down goes my CML.
I've been overtaken  :'(
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 05, 2013, 01:41:19 pm
MTA has woken up from her slumber so watch out Patrick. Here I come.
Oh dear. Down goes my CML.
I've been overtaken  :'(
:LHST: Now if I can stay above.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: 100ways on June 06, 2013, 05:40:15 pm
If there is a rights issue on a stock example RBA, will this come through on the our portfolio's or will this not cater for it in the investor challenge?

Shareholders were notified by way of a SENS announcement on 2 April, 30 April, 24
May and 31 May 2013 that the directors of RBA have decided to raise R10 million by
way of a partially underwritten rights offer, through the issue of 125 000 000 ordinary
shares at a subscription price of 8 cents per share in the ratio of 28.69 new ordinary
shares for every 100 ordinary shares held in RBA at the close of business on the record
date. The rights offer has been underwritten to a total of R 9.145 million.

The circular to shareholders has been approved by the JSE. There are no further
conditions precedent and therefore the rights offer will proceed as per the timetable
below.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 06, 2013, 06:08:22 pm
I was lying about a position 228 2 weeks ago, shares are frightening
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 07, 2013, 09:31:19 pm
I appeal. CML should be my trademark stock. I have hyped it since 2010 when I posted my "Retiring" thread and every Tom Dick and Harry dissed me as it was an unknown stock. Now every Tom's Dick has it in their portfolio. This is my stock and  have copy write on it. >:D

I would divest if I was you, sheep to the slaughter,
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 08, 2013, 02:04:56 pm
If there is a rights issue on a stock example RBA, will this come through on the our portfolio's or will this not cater for it in the investor challenge?

Tough one, could you explain in english what it means? If I understand right, all holders will get 28.69 shares per 100 shares held? What happens to people who are due fractions of a share?

How would you imagine it should be handled?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 08, 2013, 02:08:40 pm
I was lying about a position 228 2 weeks ago, shares are frightening

Tell me about it! This site is going to save me an absolute fortune. Every now and then my ego says I can outsmart the indexes :wtf:

Back to buying ETFs with my cash...
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 08, 2013, 05:26:59 pm
Same here. 100% into STXIND and just go with the flow. No more worries. By the way, does the STX performance include divies reinvested?

Just been researching the INDI. A long term smooth chart with ave returns of 35 to 40% pa. I was pleasantly surprised that the chart is so smooth with hardly any volatility. I cannot post a chart now but the Stochastic and RSI shows a BUY NOW. Both are at bottom and now up trending. 
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 08, 2013, 05:39:48 pm
Patrick. If most people have equities, would it not be great to have an index in the "Groups" to beat? I vote the INDI.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 09, 2013, 06:11:27 pm
Patrick. If most people have equities, would it not be great to have an index in the "Groups" to beat? I vote the INDI.
Not sure I follow you here, the INDI and the top40 are on the leaderboard already, explain.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 09, 2013, 07:07:59 pm
Not on the LeaderBoard Patrick. It is already there. On the "Groups". It is not there and would be great to have an index to beat in the "groups" section as well.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 09, 2013, 07:39:39 pm
maybe a thought for next year, no more than 25 % being able to be invested in one share. No real fund investor would do that anyway.

I might make a killing with my 50% in sgl :)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 10, 2013, 10:15:57 am
Not on the LeaderBoard Patrick. It is already there. On the "Groups". It is not there and would be great to have an index to beat in the "groups" section as well.

Like so: http://www.shareforum.co.za/competition/com_groups.php
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on June 10, 2013, 12:29:11 pm
 Patrick, my screen is not working again. Last I checked I was about 317th, where is I now?  :P
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 10, 2013, 02:56:46 pm
Patrick, my screen is not working again. Last I checked I was about 317th, where is I now?  :P

Can you speak a little louder, I can't hear you over that clanging sound :D(http://www.bullsnuts.com.au/wp-content/themes/thesis_184/custom/images/Chrome-Truck-nuts/tcbrass.jpg)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 11, 2013, 11:13:20 am
My shares.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 11, 2013, 12:41:43 pm
Anyone want to speculate why central rand gold (CRD) traded at 195 cents compared to it's normal 6c per share?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Spartan on June 11, 2013, 01:10:51 pm
Just about everything I have is in the negative.  Not very encouraging :D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 11, 2013, 01:13:09 pm
Seems to have happened yesterday, but there must be some error somewhere as if I log onto fnb ittells me buyers 4c sellers 6c , sharenet says buyers R1.70 sellers R1.90.

There also appears to be a calcualation error on gizmmo,s  portfolio, he does not own own crd, I get to his toal holding when adding up his portfolio or is something not showing
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 11, 2013, 01:17:03 pm
Seems to have happened yesterday, but there must be some error somewhere as if I log onto fnb ittells me buyers 4c sellers 6c , sharenet says buyers R1.70 sellers R1.90.

There also appears to be a calcualation error on gizmmo,s  portfolio, he does not own own crd, I get to his toal holding when adding up his portfolio or is something not showing

Absa also has R1.70 and R1.90. Quite strange. No calculation error on gizmmo's profile, he's just delaying his holdings by 14 days, and only bought CRD recently.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 11, 2013, 01:29:45 pm
 would rather see 14p than 0.3p any day. I know we have 50 times less shares, but we also have 50 times less shares in the market (for now). It means that if we can really sort out production & keep cash tight this shares has a chance in time to be very good share to be in. The consolidation had to happen as just to many shares in issue. Good luck and IMHO.Today 00:44OpiumRE: Conned13.50No Opinion
I wouldn't. You are not worse off in this particular case, IMO. Makes sense if CRND is to stay in the FTSE.Mon 22:29lawco280Conned13.50No Opinion
Yes we have been , i'm selling first thing in the morning at a 60% loss because this is going all the way down to nothing, consolidation is a way of stealing peoples money, take your money out before its all gone.

See they talking about a share consolidqation in the uk. did it happen here as well
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 11, 2013, 01:38:18 pm
read the results of their agm, 49 of each 50 shares have become deferred shares

http://demo.crg-sa.com/wp-content/uploads/CRD%20AGM%20SENS%20RNS%20Announcement%20V4%20070613.pdf
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 11, 2013, 03:01:14 pm
Thanks for that. I'm not familiar with deferred shares, but for the competition,  does that mean I need to decrease the number of all the CRD shares by a factor of 50?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 11, 2013, 03:34:22 pm
That the way I understand it and also the the guys in the uk are talking
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Icarium on June 12, 2013, 09:45:37 am
Would it be possible to limit shares purchased to be above a certain value? Given that this is an "investor" challenge the current winning strategy of buying penny stocks (literally - the leader has only bought shares that cost 1c) is highly unrealistic. Buying shares that you'd be hard pressed to sell and are probably in real danger of being delisted/liquidated is harldy a sane real world investing strategy.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 12, 2013, 09:58:38 am
I don't want to add too many rules during the competition run, but for next year there'll be some sort of filter to remove the real penny shares. Quite likely a cost minimum as that is the simplest to implement, but I may try get a list of shares that are illiquid and filter those out too.

As for a penny share holder leading the chart, I think most of the users are smart enough to simply ignore penny share holders!
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 12, 2013, 10:41:42 am
I did some research on Penny Stocks and found that any stock under 10 in any currency is regarded a penny stock these days. Regardless of it's market cap.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on June 14, 2013, 08:42:37 am
As I slowly make my way further down the leaderboard with the help of CPI, MMI and WHL, I start to get excited that I may soon be in the bottom 50% of the table....... :'(
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Shi on June 17, 2013, 09:57:11 am
Just been browsing thru some of the portfolio's and I think it would be beneficial to start another topic to discuss them (one at a time of course) - what u say. For example, out of the top 5, 3 members only have 1 share. Not good practise in reality but it is working for them.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 17, 2013, 09:58:29 am
Suits me fine, go right ahead.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 17, 2013, 03:43:36 pm
Patrick. Can you highlight the STXIND index in the groups as it is on the LeaderBoard? Thanks.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 18, 2013, 10:03:44 am
Patrick. Can you highlight the STXIND index in the groups as it is on the LeaderBoard? Thanks.
Done
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 18, 2013, 11:14:11 am
Thanks Patrick.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 18, 2013, 06:28:41 pm
Now don't you guys forget that I should be 3% higher due to my inability to register for a day.  :frustrated: I will remind yous from time to time.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on June 21, 2013, 05:50:20 pm
Is a time like this that the rules of the game work against it. If i was an investment manager , I would have sold everything last week. But cannot do that in the game, so massive loss this week.

On my personal jse portfolio, I cashed in last week and now have my profits booked. Will sit on the sideline till things normalise.

But that is how you learn the game ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on June 24, 2013, 09:55:53 am
Now you pay tax on your gains as a Trader. Every cent that you gained will be added to any other income you have and be taxed accordingly.

This is the only thing that kept me from offloading all my shares last week. Are you already classed as a trader tgg or have you held your shares for long enough not to be seen as a trader?

As for the contest, next year you'd be able to decide whether you're a trader or investor.
Patrick - if you are going to profile people as traders next year then you should apply tax criteria to those who wish to be treated as a trader. Also once you are treated as a trader you can't be treated as an investor at the drop of a hat - this principle applies when dealing with SARS as they want proof that you are no longer to be categorised as a trader
However to ensure that the competition doesn't become stale maybe allow full/partial sale of part of ones portfolio (arbitrarily 40%) after holding the stock for 12 months, or if this is too difficult then set a window (say 2 weeks) when investors can sell a portion of their portfolio. Another alternative is to run 2 competitions one for investors and another for traders and people if they want can choose either/or or both   
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on June 24, 2013, 10:20:07 am
Patrick - if you are going to profile people as traders next year then you should apply tax criteria to those who wish to be treated as a trader. Also once you are treated as a trader you can't be treated as an investor at the drop of a hat - this principle applies when dealing with SARS as they want proof that you are no longer to be categorised as a trader
However to ensure that the competition doesn't become stale maybe allow full/partial sale of part of ones portfolio (arbitrarily 40%) after holding the stock for 12 months, or if this is too difficult then set a window (say 2 weeks) when investors can sell a portion of their portfolio. Another alternative is to run 2 competitions one for investors and another for traders and people if they want can choose either/or or both   

Still a long way to go before next year, but at the moment the thoughts are to have one competition, everyone can sell shares at a loss. If you want to sell shares at a profit you need to change your profile to a trader profile. This will affect which leaderboard you fall onto. There will be one for traders, and another for investors. Perhaps I could do a combined one where the profits of traders are penalised by a percentage to simulate tax. All thoughts for now.

Note that you won't be able to hold a stock for over 12 months, as all holdings will be zeroed again next year. Everyone deserves a second chance right :)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on June 28, 2013, 07:06:46 pm
Oops. I just let one off there. Close your nose Patrick  :LHST:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on July 01, 2013, 10:03:21 am
Patrick - I just noticed that when I added to my Ellies Holdings (ELI) it did not pull the counter name through yet others that I added to do reflect the name

On another matter I notice that you show dividends earned based on holdings in various counters - can you (for next year) keep reflecting dividends earned but also "pay" these dividends into the "trading account" so that we can reinvest these dividends. I think you will find that the dividends could add up to quite a significant figure at the end of the day - just a thought
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 01, 2013, 10:12:32 am
I take it you're grahamcr in the comp. In your public profile I see the counter name for ellies, could you post a screenshot showing your view.: http://www.investorchallenge.co.za/com_holdings_public.php?user_id=54

I do add the dividends to the trading account, so you can spend them as you would your regular deposits  :)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on July 01, 2013, 11:09:09 am
I take it you're grahamcr in the comp. In your public profile I see the counter name for ellies, could you post a screenshot showing your view.: http://www.investorchallenge.co.za/com_holdings_public.php?user_id=54

I do add the dividends to the trading account, so you can spend them as you would your regular deposits  :)

Yup grahamcr
I can't seem to save a copy of the screen - maybe because that's because I am no techno wizard
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 01, 2013, 11:13:12 am
Press the print screen button. If you're on a laptop you might need to hold the fn key while doing that, then open paint or even ms word and press control V.

Unfortunately I made the security a little too tight, so even I can't login as you to take a look!
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on July 01, 2013, 01:21:22 pm
Press the print screen button. If you're on a laptop you might need to hold the fn key while doing that, then open paint or even ms word and press control V.

Unfortunately I made the security a little too tight, so even I can't login as you to take a look!
Seems that if I click on my name the first time it drops the name but if I click on leaderboard and my name again the name appears. will look at getting you a screen shot once I have played around with your guidelines - Ta
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 01, 2013, 01:43:21 pm
 Thanks for letting me know. That sucks on so many levels  :wall:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 01, 2013, 03:20:33 pm
Thanks Bundu, I'll correct it on the next email.

Orca your prediction about CML not going higher seems to have been off. Consequently, other than one share wonders and the penny share fakers, you're currently the accepted leader...
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 01, 2013, 06:14:20 pm
Thanks Bundu, I'll correct it on the next email.

Orca your prediction about CML not going higher seems to have been off. Consequently, other than one share wonders and the penny share fakers, you're currently the accepted leader...

Don't talk too soon Patrick. CML does on occasion go too high above the sma but she is scared of heights and will retract back. The higher she goes, the longer the fall. This is one stock that respects the 20SMA and hopefully, as she normally does, she will bounce off it.
ATM she is pushing the BB up higher than the SMA can follow and this is not good.
Title: Re: Tax
Post by: Bundu on July 01, 2013, 07:11:40 pm
I got the same email, how about we move tax to it's own thread.

good idea  :)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 01, 2013, 07:13:14 pm
I got the same email, how about we move tax to it's own thread.

good idea  :)

Tax thread here: http://www.shareforum.co.za/shares/tax/
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Shi on July 02, 2013, 10:24:22 am
Orca your prediction about CML not going higher seems to have been off. Consequently, other than one share wonders and the penny share fakers, you're currently the accepted leader...

Agreed   :TU:

Surprising that there are so many "one share wonders" in the competition.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on July 02, 2013, 04:29:03 pm
Orca & Patrick, please stop playing footsie on the leader board.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 02, 2013, 06:18:22 pm
Orca & Patrick, please stop playing footsie on the leader board.

Don't feel left out, come join us  ;)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 02, 2013, 07:22:35 pm
Orca & Patrick, please stop playing footsie on the leader board.

Don't feel left out, come join us  ;)
A threesome? Sies Patrick. I only do onesomes.  >:D
Moneypenny, with the Indi as your largest fund, you just cannot win but will be at a respectable level. Add to your other funds.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on July 02, 2013, 07:47:46 pm
Hmmm.

O goodie, we have new funds..
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: SaiyanZ on July 02, 2013, 09:48:22 pm
You can also be a penny share faker and try to be number 1 for almost two months in a row :)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on July 03, 2013, 08:48:01 am
I could SaiyanZ :) but I've got a lot of pensioners in my club so I'll have to go with 'respectable' gains, but with a twist I think.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: 100ways on July 03, 2013, 12:12:39 pm
Just an Idea:

Could we get on MyHolding the initial investment amount shown and Profit (Loss) percentage.

 
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 04, 2013, 11:46:27 am
Don't talk too soon Patrick. CML does on occasion go too high above the sma but she is scared of heights and will retract back. The higher she goes, the longer the fall. This is one stock that respects the 20SMA and hopefully, as she normally does, she will bounce off it.
ATM she is pushing the BB up higher than the SMA can follow and this is not good.

Orca my screen just went blank, how am I doing?  ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 04, 2013, 12:01:38 pm
Don't talk too soon Patrick. CML does on occasion go too high above the sma but she is scared of heights and will retract back. The higher she goes, the longer the fall. This is one stock that respects the 20SMA and hopefully, as she normally does, she will bounce off it.
ATM she is pushing the BB up higher than the SMA can follow and this is not good.

Orca my screen just went blank, how am I doing?  ;D

Oh dear. .....I'm not forgetting that 3% I lost due to not being able to register for most of the day though. :LHST:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on July 04, 2013, 06:09:15 pm
 :wtf: where did you get banned from?  :wall: You are welcome in my Sandbox any time.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 05, 2013, 05:38:49 pm
:wtf: where did you get banned from?  :wall: You are welcome in my Sandbox any time.
Thanks jaDEB.  :) Got banned from MyBroadBand forum. They were all shouting at me all the time so I said something in anger I think. Anyway, on the MBB Group I am winning so they can all now smell my farts as I run ahead of them.
Sorry Patrick. I don't mean you were one of them but use a nose plug for now.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 05, 2013, 05:53:41 pm
Getting a bit worried about MoneyMaker. No more posts and she has not used her R100k or her divi to reinvest. Hope she is ok. Very prone to outbursts on forums. Highly stressed perhaps.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on July 05, 2013, 05:58:22 pm
interesting article

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-investment-insights/how-long-do-you-keep-your-shares
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on July 05, 2013, 06:27:27 pm
http://www.sars.gov.za/AllDocs/OpsDocs/Guides/LAPD-IT-G11%20-%20Tax%20Guide%20for%20Share%20Owners.pdf

Not a very conclusive article, But the way myself and my tax guy reads it is that if you trade in reason and don,t get involved with speculative stuff, trading in a reasonable way, i.e. having a reason for selling as in not profit taking but the market turned . Would be capital gains and not income tax. I have traded on and off for a few years now and never had problems with profits taxed as income.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on July 05, 2013, 06:41:06 pm
that's my understanding as well tgg, but chances are that you will sooner or later get hassled by SARS if it happens frequently
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 05, 2013, 07:26:41 pm
Will post in the TAX thread.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 08, 2013, 10:50:27 am
You can also be a penny share faker and try to be number 1 for almost two months in a row :)
...  :laugh:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 08, 2013, 03:32:19 pm
Patrick. I see you are briefly above me now. My MTA has dipped and has bounced off a double support level ie the tech level and the bottom BB that happens to be at the same level. So it's up for me from here.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on July 08, 2013, 05:15:53 pm
So it's up for me from here.

Love your confidence Orca.  What happened to ZaiyanZ, can't find him/her? And I guess, well done P although I have trouble thinking of you and O apart like this. ;D

I also recognise a few ex-PSG online forum contenders, or maybe just new people with same names perhaps?  i.e. Sallie, Frikkie, Shi (Shi1)?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 08, 2013, 05:29:10 pm
So it's up for me from here.

Love your confidence Orca.  What happened to ZaiyanZ, can't find him/her? And I guess, well done P although I have trouble thinking of you and O apart like this. ;D

I also recognise a few ex-PSG online forum contenders, or maybe just new people with same names perhaps?  i.e. Sallie, Frikkie, Shi (Shi1)?

SaiyanZ is back at 166 where that portfolio belongs  :D

Thanks, though I have to admit, it's more luck than skill, I made only mildly educated guesses! That said, my grandmother is known to read tea leaves for people, so maybe there's a little sage in me too  ;)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 08, 2013, 05:56:03 pm
Yeah. I made 2 good choices and 1 bad one. Temporarily bad anyway. Had the same stocks in the Sharenet competition and won the yearly. Perhaps they are burned out now.
Took me months of research to find them and Patrick beats me with luck and guesses. :(
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on July 08, 2013, 09:15:17 pm
Orca you are rude and obnoxious, that is why I spend so little time here ;D

But then  i attribute that statement to the fact that my portfolio is doing shit and yours not. :-*

But the game just shows how volatile things are, a once off buyer of tkg being on top, A share being punted to dip below R10 standing at almost R18. My sgl worth about R10 - R 14, and on R 7.

There are some shiners and some far off good highs. This to me is a traders market and not investors market, apart from cml. But as in my eternal crusifiction of CML , I see them below R55 by year end.

They are in effect a little local company trading way above where they should be, because of sentiment and profits earned from stimulated marker conditions.

Would be good that as this is an ongoing game , that  starts fresh every year that patrick could keep the first years finals on record to compare with current prices thereafter.



Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 09, 2013, 11:31:14 am
How can you say that about me tgg :frustrated:
My remarks to jaDEB are tongue in cheek and he knows that. We have been members of the other forum for many years together.
The competitive remarks between me and Patrick are just light hearted banter and not bragging.

I will now go and sit in jaDEB's sandbox for awhile. He did after all invite me.  :'(
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on July 09, 2013, 06:14:36 pm
was not meant to be other  just thought  elicit some serious reaction, so the thread could get some life.

But was not to be , how about we have a chat here and also get to know each other ;)

I usually have my share chat on the wd forum as I have got to sort of know a few guys there. Never anything serious though
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 10, 2013, 05:45:03 pm
was not meant to be other  just thought  elicit some serious reaction, so the thread could get some life.

But was not to be , how about we have a chat here and also get to know each other ;)

I usually have my share chat on the wd forum as I have got to sort of know a few guys there. Never anything serious though
No prob tgg, as long as you keep posting. :TU: I only trolled you to keep it going. After all, it was me that said " come on guys. Post even if you diss people, brag or ask questions". And here goes:
Hey Patrick. Was smelling your farts for a few days so now you can smell mine again.  :LHST:
You see. He's not even cross with me.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 15, 2013, 07:03:03 pm
Why am I dropping? I am sure Patrick has his algorithms or whatever you call those mathematical stuff wrong.  :frustrated:
 Please fix. Thanks.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 15, 2013, 07:31:26 pm
I'm trying to figure out what happened today myself. I see Shi got some FGL at 18c, while it's trading at the R1.40 mark. My ABSA account does report a daily minimum of 18c a share, no idea why that would have happened. Weird share graph in any case...

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Shi on July 15, 2013, 09:06:12 pm
I got this notification of this during the day via the Std Bank alert emails. Still can't believe it, but its true. You will also see on the Sharenet site, the low for the day.

Given your disclaimer on SaiyanZ's portfolio, I would suggest that you delete this trade. It is an unrealistic trade.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on July 16, 2013, 09:04:18 am
I would suggest that you delete this trade. It is an unrealistic trade.

Why delete? :) If it has staying power so be it, if not, it will fade all by itself.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 29, 2013, 01:12:43 pm
Hey Patrick. My shares aren't updating.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on July 29, 2013, 03:30:16 pm
I would suggest that you delete this trade. It is an unrealistic trade.

Why delete? :) If it has staying power so be it, if not, it will fade all by itself.
Can's see anything on my BoE system to show that it fell dramatically in the last few months and show that it is trading around 136 cents. Have seen situations on the JSE where an investor has entered the wrong price on a sell order but most time the order is unwound by the JSE
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on July 29, 2013, 04:32:10 pm
Hey Patrick. My shares aren't updating.
JSE link was offline for a little while. It seems back to normal judging by the way my rank is dropping  :-[

I would suggest that you delete this trade. It is an unrealistic trade.

Why delete? :) If it has staying power so be it, if not, it will fade all by itself.
Can's see anything on my BoE system to show that it fell dramatically in the last few months and show that it is trading around 136 cents. Have seen situations on the JSE where an investor has entered the wrong price on a sell order but most time the order is unwound by the JSE
I saw it on ABSA the day it fell, but it may just have been a faulty trade as it bounced from the 130c range to 18c and back in virtually no time.. Realistically it probably wasn't possible for anyone to make that profit. Shi says he would accept a reversal, most likely the right thing to do in terms of the contest. Shi can I undo that trade?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Shi on July 29, 2013, 11:35:24 pm
Yes please Patrick. Bottom line is that even though it is within the rules of the competition, it was an unrealistic trade. So, please undo the FGL (18c) trade.

PS: RAC ... Patrick please note that there is an offer on the table and it looks like it will be taken out by Grindrod.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on July 30, 2013, 02:38:18 pm
Just taking a rest. I've been sick you know. :(
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 02, 2013, 11:52:30 am
I always thought that if your stocks do not perform, you have to reprimand them to get them going. Works sometimes but I just found the golden bullet.
Add Omnia to your portfolio. She has enough fertilizer to share with her new found buddies in her stable to make them all grow.
Since adding OMN, they all going up.  :LHST:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: AVM on August 02, 2013, 11:56:30 am
Does that also work if you buy Pfizer?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 02, 2013, 12:21:33 pm
Does that also work if you buy Pfizer?
:TU: :))
Or SAB but they would get very volatile.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on August 02, 2013, 02:17:08 pm
Patrick - are the shares prices updating - some seem to be out of since with my live prices - AVI is one
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on August 02, 2013, 02:28:59 pm
You're right. JSE is down again. I've activated the backups links, it'll catch up in a few minutes.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 05, 2013, 12:12:50 pm
In my view Dvr has just dissed himself off the competition by adding R100k worth of 2c stock. Sad as he was doing so well. Does he not read the posts here about these penny stocks?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on August 05, 2013, 12:23:30 pm
In my view Dvr has just dissed himself off the competition by adding R100k worth of 2c stock. Sad as he was doing so well. Does he not read the posts here about these penny stocks?

Penny shares have no place in an investor competition. Sadly I left them in to begin with. Next year they'll be gone, but we need to come up with a minimum qualification price. Maybe R1?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 05, 2013, 12:34:06 pm
The FSB will revoke his licence and most definitely Saiyan's for misappropriation of clients money.
Patrick, you should act as the FSB and do the same. Revert the trades back into cash with 2% interest. You'l get my vote.
I would say no penny stocks. Penny Stocks are stocks under R10, $10,€10 etc. as Prof Google told me.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on August 05, 2013, 01:29:14 pm
In my view R10 would be too high - there are too many stocks (208 presently) that would then be excluded.


Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on August 05, 2013, 01:44:52 pm
I believe if it is on the market then it should be available for competition. If some1 kick your @ss using a 2c share, then so be it, cause if it was real he still would have kicked your @ss.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on August 05, 2013, 01:48:31 pm
I believe if it is on the market then it should be available for competition. If some1 kick your @ss using a 2c share, then so be it, cause if it was real he still would have kicked your @ss.

only if there were enough sell shares on offer at the price that the person bought in and his holdings should then be valued at the buy price offer
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 05, 2013, 01:59:02 pm
I believe if it is on the market then it should be available for competition. If some1 kick your @ss using a 2c share, then so be it, cause if it was real he still would have kicked your @ss.

Nobody of sane mind will buy R800k worth of 2c stocks with other peoples pension money. Do you think that you will be able to sell R1m in a 2c stock? Don't think so. Perhaps at 1c but it will take ages. Half of the old people would have died by the time they get any money.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on August 05, 2013, 03:14:06 pm
I believe if it is on the market then it should be available for competition. If some1 kick your @ss using a 2c share, then so be it, cause if it was real he still would have kicked your @ss.

only if there were enough sell shares on offer at the price that the person bought in and his holdings should then be valued at the buy price offer

I agree with bundu, but it's too hard to implement in an automated way. That's why I'd rather just get rid of the single cents shares.

Since I've got your attention, how about more thoughts on having the ability to sell next year. Options:
-Allow trading and have separate scoreboards for traders and non traders (penny shares won't be tradeable, oterwise we'll get the 1c to 2c heroes leading again. )?
-Allow a certain number of sales per month. 1/2/3 a month?
-Allow sales of a share, but don't allow buying back of that share for a period of time?

Any other thoughts?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on August 05, 2013, 03:43:33 pm
I would support throwing out penny stocks, we just need to decide the level (i.e. R1 or maybe 50c)
I would also support that limited trading is allowed, but we need to decide and apply a tax to the profits and that trades that seem suspicious can be reported and reversed (as an example a sudden price jump with very low volume)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 05, 2013, 03:56:10 pm
I presume you don't mean trading futures as such. Only occasional selling and buying of investment stock.
It won't be worth selling a stock after say 6% profit if you only going for maximum gains so I would say 1/month. That way you can get rid of a bad stock or a stock that gets bad news SENS.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on August 05, 2013, 03:59:57 pm
Quote
Since I've got your attention, how about more thoughts on having the ability to sell next year.

I am all for allowing a sell, subject to conditions that an investor would normally apply -
Investors will only sell a share when it's performance has not met with the initial expectations. Therefore the investor would at least have held the share for a sufficient period of time to allow the performance to be monitored. Once sold, an investor would then not buy back that share until such time as the investor is satified that it's performance has turned around, which would take quite some time - at least 3 months, usually 12 months, or more.

Therefore, we would need to apply these "real-life" conditions to the comp. As the comp is annually based, we need to consider that the "waiting" periods applied need to be adjusted accordingly, and therefor I propose the following -
Allow investors to make as many sells as they like, provided that
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 05, 2013, 04:01:06 pm
I agree with Bundu.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on August 05, 2013, 04:08:10 pm
Therefore, we would need to apply these "real-life" conditions to the comp. As the comp is annually based, we need to consider that the "waiting" periods applied need to be adjusted accordingly, and therefor I propose the following -
Allow investors to make as many sells as they like, provided that
  • The share being sold has been held for at least 3 months
  • All shares are sold (none of that 50% now/50% later stuff)
  • The same share cannot be repurchased for at least 2 months after being sold

my view is that will be too prescriptive (and probably too complex to manage)....
what if I buy a share today and a very bad SENS comes out tomorrow that changes my view about the prospects? In real life, I would sell and not wait 3 months
why sell all my shares? I've often bought while averaging the price down and sold while averaging up...

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 05, 2013, 05:18:42 pm
Taxing a sale will get too complex. What if I made a loss? As will averaging up and down. A penalty of sorts will have to be implemented as some guys will abuse the game if there are no limits pm.
Selling once during the year will make you a trader and as all the contestants will sell at some stage, we will all be on equal footing as traders.
We will have to minimize the trades and set a penalty to replace tax.
I would say -2% plus costs for gains and zero plus costs for losses as the losses are a punishment for picking cr@p stocks anyway.

The issue of guys buying or selling on spikes and small volume will have to be addressed.

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on August 05, 2013, 06:41:12 pm
I believe if it is on the market then it should be available for competition. If some1 kick your @ss using a 2c share, then so be it, cause if it was real he still would have kicked your @ss.

only if there were enough sell shares on offer at the price that the person bought in and his holdings should then be valued at the buy price offer

Yes, I agree with that
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on August 06, 2013, 09:57:27 am
I have read through a number of the post around this competition as suggestions are still being made for next years competition and what the rules should be. The previous competition was canned due to the fact that you selected 5 counters for the forthcoming month and hoped like hell that you chose the right shares - the reality was that it was nothing more than a lottery. This competition was to test peoples ability to invest over a longer period, but becomes a lottery certainly from about September onwards as you try and invest your monthly allocation in a manner that it gives you good returns over a diminishing timeframe - and its all our hopes that we still create a pile of wealth to win the competition at the end of the year. So in essence funds invested from September onwards are going to go towards more riskier counters to try and optimize returns to keep you in the competition - and at the end of the day a penny stock may just win it for a competitor. I have not been in favour of the monthly allocation primarily because it encourages risk taking which is beyond the bounds of what the competitor would normally have invested in - so the focus shifts from investing to speculating and in essence that is what a trader would do. So I believe that those people who speculate more are more likely to win the competition. So we need to be aware that if the competition allows for speculation and encourages it then we should not place restrictions on buying and selling orders - another scenario that could play itself out and we need to be aware of that is - I could sit in cash the entire year and then in December I pick one penny stock share when its price goes down and then wait out the month for the share price to move by even 1 cent and you would more than likely win the competition with a handsome return - if you are not convinced look at the leaders on the board currently to get my drift
So I would advocate that the rules of the competition be that you get your annual funds up front in January and you have the rest of the year to decide how you wish to allocate those funds to various counters. Then over and above that you may have as many purchases as you wish during a month ( you may want to take up small parcels of a share over time rather than going in, in a single purchase) but when it comes to sales maybe a restriction of only 2 sales per month are permitted, this will allow those who have made a poor investment decision to unwind their loss making shares, and then look to an alternative investment. There should not be a restriction on someone who sells a particular share, from, at a later stage, buying the same share again - this is nothing more than locking in some profits. This competition is over a year so buying and selling the same counter within this period puts one at risk of violating your tax status with SARS so we should ignore this aspect in the competition due to its short run period - if we end up running a competition like this over a 3 - 5 year widow I don't think we will attract many competitors and also it may start cloning the investors real portfolio - and I don't think I want to put my portfolio onto such a public forum as there may well be a couple of SARS lurkers around. So maybe we need to try and keep the competition as simple to ensure enthusiasm and interest and not clog it up rules and regulations. Also the competitors should be permitted to buy any share they wish but warrants, CFD's and SSF's and any other derivatives are excluded
So Patrick maybe what needs to happen is that all suggestions over the last 11 pages are summarized and then we can debate the outline and rudimentary rules of the competition for next year       
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 06, 2013, 10:35:37 am
gcr :TU: You are correct and I agree that more contestants will start gambling from now and go for broke as its "just a game".
To save what's left of the present challenge I would say that Patrick should revert all those 1 and 2c stocks back to cash and add on the introduction page that these will not be allowed due to liquidity problems. In red.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on August 06, 2013, 11:06:28 am
You're right. JSE is down again. I've activated the backups links, it'll catch up in a few minutes.
Patrick - I am waiting to buy shares for the competition GFI - but your price is R54.20 and the share has been trading down around R 53.32 - I want to get in at this level not your feed price - anyway of getting into the competition at this price - don't really want to wait for the competition system to update
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on August 06, 2013, 11:16:51 am
You're right. JSE is down again. I've activated the backups links, it'll catch up in a few minutes.
Patrick - I am waiting to buy shares for the competition GFI - but your price is R54.20 and the share has been trading down around R 53.32 - I want to get in at this level not your feed price - anyway of getting into the competition at this price - don't really want to wait for the competition system to update
Link is up, update has also just run. Check the latest prices.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on August 06, 2013, 11:23:13 am
You're right. JSE is down again. I've activated the backups links, it'll catch up in a few minutes.
Patrick - I am waiting to buy shares for the competition GFI - but your price is R54.20 and the share has been trading down around R 53.32 - I want to get in at this level not your feed price - anyway of getting into the competition at this price - don't really want to wait for the competition system to update
Link is up, update has also just run. Check the latest prices.
Bought - thanks
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Snakepit on August 12, 2013, 12:01:13 pm
Wait a minute. I put in buy orders over the weekend. I bought at the price that was displayed on the buy page. Was that price outdated?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on August 12, 2013, 12:02:20 pm
Wait a minute. I put in buy orders over the weekend. I bought at the price that was displayed on the buy page. Was that price outdated?

It would have been the Friday closing price.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on August 13, 2013, 06:14:03 pm
Patrick - a fair bit has been wriiten on the penny pincher stocks that have been bought in this competition and the value of investing in such stocks. Since this competition concludes at the end of the year and is finite for that year, and, since all purchases are based on the buyer price then at year end on Tuesday 31st December 2013 all share holdings should have the buying price applied to liquidating share holdings of stock. Thus in the case of a penny stock it may have been purchased at 1 cent and on 31/12/2013 you have buyers at 1 cent and sellers at 2 cents, but no trades then the buying price of 1 cent is applied to the holding of the penny stock. Should someone be that crazy to win the competition they would have to go into the real market and buy shares at 2 cents to force the traded price up to 2 cents. May just be a method to level the playing field - maybe also consider using the last traded price for a share when we are able to buy in next years competition and though you may place an order to buy it is held in abeyance until there is a trade in the counter - this may help to take the seldom traded shares out of the competition
Just some thought for debate
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on August 21, 2013, 09:36:16 am
Dammit, just cannot believe this, just replaced my screen.....and blink gone again. Cannot see anything. Patrick !!!! what is my position on the challenge. ?


I wish, I wish I had the b ??? lls to do this real life. 1day, watch me, 1day is the day..... :wall:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on August 21, 2013, 09:41:52 am
Dammit, just cannot believe this, just replaced my screen.....and blink gone again. Cannot see anything. Patrick !!!! what is my position on the challenge. ?


I wish, I wish I had the b ??? lls to do this real life. 1day, watch me, 1day is the day..... :wall:

I don't want to talk about it   ;)

You still need to catch up to Orca and Moneypenny though, what are you going to buy next month?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on August 21, 2013, 10:03:31 am
Uhhh let me think......... yip SGL
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 21, 2013, 10:21:51 am
I haven't looked at the challenge in a week now. Too scared to and don't tell me my position please. ???
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on August 21, 2013, 11:22:29 am
OK Orca I understand, 12, I will not tell you, 12. I am currently 6th, 12, but you are doing well, 12.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on August 21, 2013, 11:23:08 am
I don't want to talk about it   ;)

You still need to catch up to Orca and Moneypenny though, what are you going to buy next month?

Done and dusted, well done jaDEB.

Patrick you don't want talk, Orca doesn't want to see and jaDEB never listens :D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on August 21, 2013, 11:26:57 am
Patrick you don't want talk, Orca doesn't want to see and jaDEB never listens :D
So then this would be the 3 of us:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on August 21, 2013, 11:30:33 am
 :)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on August 21, 2013, 11:44:59 am
Touchč  :D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 21, 2013, 06:32:07 pm
jaDEB made me look.  :frustrated: At No. 11 and jaDEB is at No. 5. I diss 1c gainers.
I did say that I have been feeling sick lately but will recover soon and start running up again. Geez. Can't find Patrick anywhere around here.
jaDEB, put your parachute on.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 26, 2013, 03:50:07 pm
Me and Moneypenny running neck to neck. Helloooo down there jaDEB. Patrick too far down to hear me but I see he has been struggling to break through the Indi resistance level for some days.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on August 26, 2013, 05:15:34 pm
 :LHST:

10    Moneypenny    R954,741.60    19.34%
11    jaDEB    R952,317.46    19.04%
12    Tacet    R952,192.53    19.02%
13    Orca    R950,657.01    18.83%
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 28, 2013, 06:57:05 pm
Now Moneypenny has moved above me temporarily so has jaDEB. Patrick has finally broken through the Indi resistance level and is above it. Hopefully he will have support now at the Indi level. He was there long enough to create good support. :TU:
 
I know these things. Any advice as to your position in the competition, don't hesitate to ask. 8)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on August 28, 2013, 07:25:42 pm
...temporarily?  Oh man, now I have to punish you. ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Shi on August 29, 2013, 09:16:08 am
 :D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 29, 2013, 10:17:23 am
...temporarily?  Oh man, now I have to punish you. ;D
Thanks. You jinxed my MTA.  :wtf: 6m report out today and although satisfactory, she fell 6.5%.  :wall:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on August 29, 2013, 03:24:39 pm
No, I will never do that. :D 

Traders and investors are in the same boat, we might as well head in the same direction. 

Market makers on the other hand :mad: I'll take them down without blinking.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on August 29, 2013, 05:30:34 pm
Patrick drawing everyone posting down to join him :))
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on August 29, 2013, 06:49:22 pm
oh oh, you've just posted tgg   :D

Patrick, get your act together, I hear it is all your fault we're all tanking. :'(
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on August 30, 2013, 02:20:48 pm
At least mine are tanking the fastest. :TU: So I'm winning something.

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on August 30, 2013, 04:41:30 pm
You missing patrick,s company :)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on September 01, 2013, 01:53:41 pm
rhetorical question tgg?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on September 02, 2013, 08:44:37 am
Always good to be wanted  :D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 02, 2013, 09:43:36 am
Bought some Chickens this morning with my R100,000. Thanks Patrick.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on September 02, 2013, 05:38:44 pm
Patrick has become within chatting distance below me but where is jaDEB? Oh there he is above waving at me. Is he waving like in "goodbye"? No. Wait. He's waving a Kentucky drumstick around.
Moneypenny is almost out of sight above me past all those strangers but they all starting to have a hard time with the 1c and 2c pieces raining on their heads as those other strangers dump them for their new found 3c pieces.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 03, 2013, 08:36:05 am
Need to see what Rainbow chickens will do after bad results. Thus competition is a good way of keeping track of a share.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on September 03, 2013, 08:45:10 am
Do we buy shares at previous day closing price?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on September 03, 2013, 08:46:13 am
Yep.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on September 03, 2013, 09:18:07 pm
http://www.investorchallenge.co.za/com_holdings_public.php?user_id=135

???

how does this happen
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on September 03, 2013, 09:23:39 pm
if you have the right connections or the right person by their connections, you can sell as well  :wtf:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on September 04, 2013, 07:34:57 am
He was buying negative shares. I closed the loophole...

Not sure he expected the transaction history to get published though  ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on September 04, 2013, 02:35:18 pm
Anybody else want to move in before me on leader board?
 
If you're looking for the opportune moment, this is it.  :D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 04, 2013, 03:26:27 pm
 Orca is still behind you...

I see 2nd, and 3rd has not bought in last 4 months. R400, 000 cash. lol. they are kicking our  >:( ss and is not even trying.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on September 05, 2013, 05:43:48 pm
Hey jaDEB. Your chickens aint gonna work. Reason is this. They use light bulbs to keep the eggs warm and light bulbs on 24/7 to keep them awake and eating to get them fat quicker. They use hundreds of bulbs and electricity has got more expensive.
This is the very reason why chicken meat will become more expensive than red meat and it will reflect in the stock price. 8)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on September 05, 2013, 08:28:23 pm
31 millionares, and orca on the edge :)

What to buy, I can,t decide, but it won,t be chickens
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on September 05, 2013, 08:43:29 pm
Hi Orca, Thanks for your advice on CML. Will it drop below R60?
I stopped posting on CML as I don't want to attract peeps here to invest in it anymore due to the fact that she might just drop to that level. 6500 is a good support level but the market is due for a correction as much as 15% soon so maybe the 6500 will be breached.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on September 09, 2013, 07:20:21 pm
Sorry about this but I need to reprimand my shares for doing badly.

MTA.  :frustrated: How dare you embarrass me on this forum. Your results were flat and you tanked. SIES. Are all your batteries flat as well? I hope for your sake that the new foreign acquisition negotiation announced today is successful otherwise you toast my boy.
PNC.  :frustrated: Why tank after 18% gain in HEPS? What is wrong with you? All those acquisitions and only 1% gain in full year from them. Now you will blame the ZAR I suppose.
Perhaps the 2 of you will blame all the 1c pieces raining on your heads dumped by all those 2c gainers.
CML.  :frustrated: Wake up now. You have rested long enough. Look at CFR and TGK. You keep going up and then dropping back to your support. Get your A into G and show them.

Don't read the above as it is just my way to get my stocks to revive.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on September 10, 2013, 09:09:10 am
 :D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 10, 2013, 10:23:34 am
Dear SGL,

Gold tanked, they strike, some know it all's predicted the end of gold. yet you put me 4th so far. Well done. I am frikkin sorry that I sold you in my real portfolio, would have made my target by now, but no, I is a scary cat....knob.

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on September 10, 2013, 10:34:58 am
You guys are losing it, seriously. Pfft, talking to shares. :D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on September 10, 2013, 11:44:56 am
You guys are losing it, seriously. Pfft, talking to shares. :D
What's the prob Moneypenny? It normally works. Look at MTA today. Up over 2%.
I grew up that way. My Dad used to walk around our car swearing at it and kicking the tyres.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on September 10, 2013, 12:06:46 pm
...or it could be the cautionary announcement. 

But I will try.

Maybe,

Once.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 10, 2013, 12:42:12 pm
My psychiatrist suggest that it will help me + increase my tablet in to 9 tablets a day. But I must say, the seagull is back in the kitchen every now and then, was away for about 3 months, and they took my shotgun away, so I am a bit worried currently
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on September 10, 2013, 12:54:59 pm
Maybe we should alter the name of this thread to "The investor is challenged" what with people talking to physiatrists, bone throwers and all manner of sangoma's  ;D
 
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 10, 2013, 01:42:04 pm
Nice 1 gcr  ....  :D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on September 12, 2013, 08:48:47 am
Patrick
Seeing as you are going for the RMB Midcap next, how about adding it to the comp leaderboard like you've done STX Indi and 40?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on September 12, 2013, 09:04:05 am
Next year all ETFs will be on the leaderboard. I'll automate it. If I can find price history going back to April I'll add the midcap index, but so far I've only found 3 months worth of daily closes.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on September 12, 2013, 12:40:05 pm
Next year all ETFs will be on the leaderboard. I'll automate it. If I can find price history going back to April I'll add the midcap index, but so far I've only found 3 months worth of daily closes.

1 years history for you
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on September 19, 2013, 02:13:50 pm
jaDEB, while you drown some sorrows with the fishies, you're currently the realistic leader of the challenge  :TU:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 19, 2013, 03:21:05 pm
Thanks Patrick ...  8)

I wonder what happened to the "other" site's competition. I suppose forum is so busy with CFD's & ALSI trades they have forgotten about it. But yes, each to his own.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on September 19, 2013, 04:37:49 pm
 All heil jaDEB! ;D

(Sorry jaDEB, I'm just too tired now to properly praise you, but I couldn't let it just slip by, well done!)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 19, 2013, 05:00:57 pm
Thanks, but we all know, all can change in a blink of an eye ......  :TU:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on September 19, 2013, 07:21:05 pm
Funny how some investors with decent portfolio.s could not resist the temptation of adding NUT as some stage. :LHST:

To me the biggest disgrace in this competition would be to own a penny stock. But then some will do anything for a win even if it means nothing.

See Nimz hit a luck with his CRD.

The one share that has amazed me is FGL

7 day change   -2.5%
30 day change   17.2%
90 day change   4.7%
6 month change   101.3%
1 year change   1470.0%

and I can,t find out why
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 20, 2013, 08:14:09 am
FGL was 10c 19 Sept 2012, now 160c +/- 1500 % increase. Did you read yesterday about Naspers. If you bought R100k on its listing 19 years ago, it would be R26 mill today...

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 20, 2013, 10:07:29 am
I own 358903 FGL shares

Real portfolio or competition?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 20, 2013, 02:05:53 pm
 :frustrated:..dammit thought you had FGL in real life and is smilling. Orca is fighting with the Taxman, hopefully he will win + CML turns and goes up. I would rather he kicks my  ::) ss in the competition , i.e. CML goes to R95 by year end, cause then he makes real money as he owns a cr  ;D p load of CML. I do not own SGL in real life  :'(
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on September 20, 2013, 04:35:27 pm
I own quite a few sgl in real trade so I hope you win the competition.

Am wondering what to do with the dividend out soon
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on September 23, 2013, 11:35:09 am
I could have bought a brand new Corsa cash with the money I lost in a week. I haven't checked the challenge in 2 weeks now. At this stage, I actually don't care if my CML drops to 2700 (price bought). That way I can get out without being penalized.  :-[
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 23, 2013, 11:53:50 am
Cheer up Orca. We all pay tax, u are not alone. But do not let it get you down or demotivated.  :wall:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on September 23, 2013, 12:16:22 pm
Like this?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 23, 2013, 01:39:15 pm
No sure, see what you mean. I get taxed on my salary + medical aid +  pension + :frustrated: +  :frustrated: +  :frustrated:... agg ffs, there you are,  :wall: happy now. Now I am also crying ..... :'(
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on September 23, 2013, 02:38:57 pm
I'm going to try sticking to Warren Buffett's holding period, no tax that way  :TU: (obviously aside from dividends witholding...)
Quote
In 1988 we made major purchases of Federal Home Loan Mortgage Pfd. (“Freddie Mac”) and Coca Cola.  We expect to hold these securities for a long time.  In fact, when we own portions of outstanding businesses with outstanding managements, our favorite holding period is forever.  We are just the opposite of those who hurry to sell and book profits when companies perform well but who tenaciously hang on to businesses that disappoint.
From: http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/1988.html
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on September 23, 2013, 03:23:45 pm
No sure, see what you mean. I get taxed on my salary + medical aid +  pension + :frustrated: +  :frustrated: +  :frustrated:... agg ffs, there you are,  :wall: happy now. Now I am also crying ..... :'(

That's only my "Trading" tax.   :wall: You must see it with my salary added.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 23, 2013, 04:00:05 pm
If you keep it Orca, how long do you need to keep it before you do not pay tax?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on September 23, 2013, 05:53:06 pm
If you keep it Orca, how long do you need to keep it before you do not pay tax?

You will always pay tax jaDEB. If you sell before the 3 year holding term, all your gains are added to your income. If you sell after the 3 year term, 33.3% of your gains are added to your income.

The mystery is this. According to SARS website, if you were classed as a trader by selling and buying before the 3 year term then hold for 10 years then your stocks are still regarded as trading stock and will be taxed accordingly.

To change your stocks to long term Capital Assets, you need to "regard" your stocks as "sold" even if you don't sell them and pay the tax due at 100% of the gains added to your income. Your Base cost will then be at the market value at the end of that day. (I presume)
Problem now is that if you were a Trader and then changed your intention to be an investor, you would have sold the stocks prior to this anyway and paid the tax, then this date of new purchase should be the start of the 3year holding period in my view but unfortunately SARS is not clear on this.

Hope you get what I mean.







Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on September 27, 2013, 10:37:23 am
I own quite a few sgl in real trade so I hope you win the competition.

Am wondering what to do with the dividend out soon

You must be quite happy watching jaDEB's ever increasing lead!
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 27, 2013, 11:19:33 am
Yes, I should believe in myself. I had a crap load of SGL, and I believed that it will go up. But NO, panicked and sold... :frustrated:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on September 27, 2013, 08:18:57 pm
Yes, I should believe in myself. I had a crap load of SGL, and I believed that it will go up. But NO, panicked and sold... :frustrated:

Did you actually have sgl in your real portfolio, I have and went through some major losses, also shitted myself, did a buy sell thing for a while and lost some money on trading fees, but am major up at the moment. Am a bit concerned about some wd that bought sgl when I was punting it then sold it at a low because cml seemed the thing. Many sheep fell into that hole.

Give stats of y to y on cml, sgl and lon
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 30, 2013, 08:18:02 am
Yes, at a stage my portfolio was 100% SGL. If I kept it, I would have ulcers, due to low of about R8, but also would have been in the money now +/- 15%.  :wall:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on September 30, 2013, 09:53:40 am
SGL ....

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 07, 2013, 02:56:50 pm
Patrick, are you sure we're buying at previous day close, doesn't seem so for TKG. Closed 2523 Friday, can buy for 2662 now - what am I doing wrong here?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on October 07, 2013, 03:13:10 pm
Patrick, are you sure we're buying at previous day close, doesn't seem so for TKG. Closed 2523 Friday, can buy for 2662 now - what am I doing wrong here?

Nope, that's not the case, else everyone would just buy when the market has already gone up! Prices are live (delayed somewhere between 15 and 25 minutes. The only time you'd buy at the previous days close is if you buy after trading hours.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on October 07, 2013, 03:41:29 pm
Patrick - when buying shares on this challenge it is absolutely vital that participants watch the share price on another forum (I use my brokers live feed) and when the price drops they wait for your system to drop the price which seems to be 10 minutes later (but not always) Then the participants can climb in at the lower price for a similar period of time. Doesn't help to just use the price shown on your system unless it is to the participants advantage, but you do need another source of price monitoring O:-)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on October 07, 2013, 04:54:51 pm
http://www.sharechat.co.za/index.php/t/12955/

I use to have +/- 5 shares in my portfolio + warrants. I then started using Bread's Philosophy.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 07, 2013, 05:36:45 pm
Patrick, are you sure we're buying at previous day close, doesn't seem so for TKG. Closed 2523 Friday, can buy for 2662 now - what am I doing wrong here?

Nope, that's not the case, else everyone would just buy when the market has already gone up! Prices are live (delayed somewhere between 15 and 25 minutes. The only time you'd buy at the previous days close is if you buy after trading hours.

Had to try my luck. O:-)

jaDEB, what are you doing and what is Bread's Philosophy?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on October 07, 2013, 05:45:55 pm
If in doubt, buy Omnia. Only goes up always and the PE Ratio stays the same over time.

1 Year 66%
2 Year 77% ave py.
3 Year 72% ave py.
Divies not included.

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on October 07, 2013, 06:02:20 pm
one share, Un-diversified, trading strategy.

Bread Started it, read some of the stuff as per link to other "Site".

I only have 1 Share at a time. Currently OCE.

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on October 10, 2013, 03:08:52 pm
I'm comming back now. Just went to see what Porn-Star was up to down the bottom there. I can already see Patrick slightly above me.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on October 14, 2013, 06:34:30 pm
I'm comming back now. Just went to see what Porn-Star was up to down the bottom there. I can already see Patrick slightly above me.

Oops. Sorry for that Patrick. Never noticed you. Perhaps I flew too fast upwards and everything was a blur. I would have greeted you on my way up.
Now for MoneyPenny. Just 0.5% to go. jaDEB's too high for me at this stage. Not worried about the penny pinchers between us though.
Luckily they won't be around next year.  :))
 
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 15, 2013, 08:51:29 am
You clever little Kazakhstanian, sneaking up on me when I'm distracted, and Patrick doing the same thing.

(I have recently discovered that Discovery should have been better left undiscovered. :()
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on October 15, 2013, 07:31:58 pm
Well that's that for MoneyPenny. Who's next? tgg? I think he has posted here so he is my next target.  :TU:
This is getting tiring but I will persevere. After tgg, it will be my good fiend Alf101. Oh no. He has penny stocks so he is dissed. Sorry my fiend. jaDEB is next but he is far too high for me. :frustrated:

 
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: SaiyanZ on October 15, 2013, 10:21:33 pm
I see that I'm still winning.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on October 16, 2013, 07:13:05 am
If someone could just tell those fish to keep swimming up I'll overtake MoneyPenny. And then get those gold mines striking to bring jaDEB back down from the heavens. Sorry tgg I know you won't be happy about that though as you have SGL in real life.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 16, 2013, 07:43:24 am
Hey! Why is everybody gunning for me? Thought we were friends.  :-*

Nice moves by the way O.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on October 16, 2013, 06:20:34 pm
If someone could just tell those fish to keep swimming up I'll overtake MoneyPenny. And then get those gold mines striking to bring jaDEB back down from the heavens. Sorry tgg I know you won't be happy about that though as you have SGL in real life.

I have also been buying gfi and am way down there in real life, but the gold mine strikes are over.

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on October 16, 2013, 06:21:46 pm
Well that's that for MoneyPenny. Who's next? tgg? I think he has posted here so he is my next target.  :TU:
This is getting tiring but I will persevere. After tgg, it will be my good fiend Alf101. Oh no. He has penny stocks so he is dissed. Sorry my fiend. jaDEB is next but he is far too high for me. :frustrated:

 

If my gfi and aeg recover it could be a tough call ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on October 16, 2013, 06:23:04 pm
I see that I'm still winning.

Not any more, but with a portfolio like that , i would not be a proud winner anyway >:D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on October 16, 2013, 07:52:09 pm
Was wondering about the buying strategy for the last 2 months.

Buy or just hold the cash.

Or in my situation, put more into the down shares and hope they recover with a better cost average
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on October 17, 2013, 08:17:25 am
tgg, I dig gold. But I sold out, as it is so volatile, irrelevant what happens in SA. It seems that some people speculate that gold is not what it use to be. I suppose the difference between me and u is that you can have gold as a % of your portfolio, i.e 30% or so. I cannot as I adopted breads 1 share portfolio method. Thus if I go for gold it would be 100%.  But yes, the day may come. Keep me updated on your thoughts on gold. Also I do still believe that if gold recovers to 1400 / 1500 level SGL is the place u wanna be.

PS. seems my small % of fishies and chicken is also not doing to bad in the competition.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 18, 2013, 07:58:21 am
jaDEB ! Well done, you did it. 8)

Other posters giving me a beating (Orca, tgg, O, Shi, P) all smoking as well.  :TU:

Well done to non-posters also doing well, guess I just don't focus on you, so start posting. ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on October 18, 2013, 08:28:03 am
Congrats jaDEB, that deserves a thumbs up
(http://www.picgifs.com/celebrities/c/cameron-diaz/celebrities-cameron-diaz-993982.jpg)

Can you hold it for the next 2 months?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on October 18, 2013, 08:46:19 am
 :LHST:, lol I never would have thought..... let see how long it lasts .. Patrick, do I win the car or the lady that is attached to the thumbs up.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on October 18, 2013, 10:08:55 am
if she on your dating site patrick,

if so send a link
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on October 18, 2013, 10:55:50 am
if she on your dating site patrick,

if so send a link

Mz Diaz, sadly not, but if she played her cards right she'd have a chance with me  ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on October 18, 2013, 08:29:43 pm
Amazing how a diversed portfolio with 2 or 3 bad counters bring a average down. Where one share can make you tops.

Apart from the penny guys I now know why all the other competitions limit a buy of a certain share  to 25% of your portfolio.

A fund manger must be risk adverse, not an opportunist. My portfolio is also wrong in that I have to much SGL, but it was the share of the moment as jaydeb has shown, telkom as jaymed has shown was also a buy .


but neither is a good investment strategy.

So apart from the nice blond you cannot link me up with , it is still fun

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on October 19, 2013, 10:07:45 am
Amazing how a diversed portfolio with 2 or 3 bad counters bring a average down. Where one share can make you tops.

Apart from the penny guys I now know why all the other competitions limit a buy of a certain share  to 25% of your portfolio.

A fund manger must be risk adverse, not an opportunist. My portfolio is also wrong in that I have to much SGL, but it was the share of the moment as jaydeb has shown, telkom as jaymed has shown was also a buy .


but neither is a good investment strategy.


So apart from the nice blond you cannot link me up with , it is still fun


jaydeb ?  ??? Is he now beating me.... ?

"My portfolio is also wrong in that I have to much SGL" - If you bought at below R12, and the gold recovers, not only will you smile due to SGL price, but also their divvie policy. But yes, it is not a easy call, as SGL is very volatile.

Saying that, I think you are where I wanted to be and planned that, but I got scared and sold all my SGL. In hindsight I should have kept mine. Hope my fishies turn into gold on the 7th Nov.

But i wish u all the luck with your SGL's
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on October 21, 2013, 08:37:38 am
Moneypenny conquered, not to reign in Orca  ;D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 21, 2013, 08:53:56 am
Conquered?  You wish. :D

Just gave you a fighting chance. >:D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on October 21, 2013, 09:50:55 am
MoneyPenny and Patrick were discussing something together down there for some days. Wonder if it was strategies as she has now broken into a gallop.
Anyway, I am tired after my sprint and will rest here for a while.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on October 22, 2013, 07:15:53 pm
It would seem that gold shares are making a move , so I could recover my losses on GFI.

Then you will struggle to catch me orca :)

Patrick how about a separate leader board without  the penny pincher's. Everytime TCS hit 2c or NUT is on 2c or climbs to 3c the whole game gets warped.

They are only there for irritation value anyway
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on October 22, 2013, 07:31:01 pm
It would seem that gold shares are making a move , so I could recover my losses on GFI.

Then you will struggle to catch me orca :)

Patrick how about a separate leader board without  the penny pincher's. Everytime TCS hit 2c or NUT is on 2c or climbs to 3c the whole game gets warped.

They are only there for irritation value anyway

I agree with that..... not that I'm near the top  :-[ but, it's annoying looking at somebody's portfolio and then you realize their shares are not 'real'
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on October 23, 2013, 08:50:08 am
It would seem that gold shares are making a move , so I could recover my losses on GFI.

Then you will struggle to catch me orca :)

Patrick how about a separate leader board without  the penny pincher's. Everytime TCS hit 2c or NUT is on 2c or climbs to 3c the whole game gets warped.

They are only there for irritation value anyway

I agree with that..... not that I'm near the top  :-[ but, it's annoying looking at somebody's portfolio and then you realize their shares are not 'real'

Next year there'll be no penny shares any more... And selling, with a kind of a tax system built in to level the playing field for traders and investors. At least the theory is in my head, building it still needs to happen!
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: franz on October 23, 2013, 10:22:36 am
The selling part would simulate more real time investing/trading.
I am getting hammered to the bottom by Ellie's  :'( :'(
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on October 23, 2013, 10:34:46 am
The selling part would simulate more real time investing/trading.
I am getting hammered to the bottom by Ellie's  :'( :'(
Ellies are taking strain because the government are taking too long to sanction the set top boxes for digital TV - they keep pushing out the conversion date
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: franz on October 23, 2013, 11:55:02 am
Hope it's anytime soon as I also hold ELI in my real portfolio
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on October 23, 2013, 05:07:08 pm
In my book, all those above the STXIND are winners and beating most Fund Managers.   :TU:

Not talking about the 1c and 2c Penny stock holders.  :frustrated:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on October 23, 2013, 05:53:58 pm
In my book, all those above the STXIND are winners and beating most Fund Managers.   :TU:

Not talking about the 1c and 2c Penny stock holders.  :frustrated:
Seems like you have been at the juice somewhat earlier than normal - would you have made this statement a week or two ago when your portfolio was below the index - don't think so.
If you want to be controversial then lay it on the line but be consistent >:D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 23, 2013, 07:53:58 pm
As long as you consistently make more than what you put in (after brokers & tax), then you're okay in my book.  :)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on October 23, 2013, 10:21:21 pm
As long as you consistently make more than what you put in (after brokers & tax), then you're okay in my book.  :)
Agree
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 28, 2013, 10:56:38 am
Patrick, either the leader board has frozen in time or I'm perfecting the skill of picking loser shares. Which is it?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on October 28, 2013, 11:01:31 am
Patrick, either the leader board has frozen in time or I'm perfecting the skill of picking loser shares. Which is it?

c) the JSE has a hangover.

Switching to the backup links.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 28, 2013, 11:04:46 am
Thank you.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 28, 2013, 04:35:28 pm
Ironically, Adcock & Discovery making me sick.  :'(
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on October 28, 2013, 06:27:24 pm
Yeh. I know how you feel. Sickening to invest in healthy stuff. You must reprimand them. Shout at them. They will then go up. Reminds me to reprimand mine now.

PNC.   :frustrated: Are you in DOS mode again. Sleeping I think. You are embarrassing me in front of 300+ people here. What's wrong with you? Look at your pal CML that now has to carry you in my portfolio. Get off your butt and get going. Your bosses bought you more toys as in acquisitions and you not interested !!!
MTA.   :frustrated:  Are your batteries flat? Your boss just bought you a R2.2B battery buddy and you got revved up for 2 days then lost interest. I already said here that you are the next CML and now you embarrass me like this. Put some spark in there and get your wheels rolling mate.
CML.  ^-^ Thank you for doing so well. Talk some sense into your room mates and get them going. Then you must rest as you must be tired now. I don't mind if you have a rest my friend.

 
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on October 29, 2013, 08:20:34 am
Yeh. I know how you feel. Sickening to invest in healthy stuff. You must reprimand them. Shout at them. They will then go up. Reminds me to reprimand mine now.

No, not going to polish their marbles.  In real life I would have kicked them to the curb by now, learning patience here, or is it 'patients'. 
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on October 29, 2013, 08:54:05 am
Yeh. I know how you feel. Sickening to invest in healthy stuff. You must reprimand them. Shout at them. They will then go up. Reminds me to reprimand mine now.

PNC.   :frustrated: Are you in DOS mode again. Sleeping I think. You are embarrassing me in front of 300+ people here. What's wrong with you? Look at your pal CML that now has to carry you in my portfolio. Get off your butt and get going. Your bosses bought you more toys as in acquisitions and you not interested !!!
MTA.   :frustrated:  Are your batteries flat? Your boss just bought you a R2.2B battery buddy and you got revved up for 2 days then lost interest. I already said here that you are the next CML and now you embarrass me like this. Put some spark in there and get your wheels rolling mate.
CML.  ^-^ Thank you for doing so well. Talk some sense into your room mates and get them going. Then you must rest as you must be tired now. I don't mind if you have a rest my friend.

 

 :D :D :D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Icarium on October 29, 2013, 09:23:46 am
I'm actually impressed at how many of the participants are beating inflation. and how few are seeing capital losses... (Not that beating inflation is unexpected).
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on October 29, 2013, 12:57:50 pm
I'm actually impressed at how many of the participants are beating inflation. and how few are seeing capital losses... (Not that beating inflation is unexpected).

Actually the performance of the market lately has impressed me. No doubt a correction is due then look again. The minus figures will shoot up.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: 100ways on October 30, 2013, 04:02:58 pm
Could you let me know when Redefine International stock will be converted to RI Plc and relect the correct price?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on October 30, 2013, 06:44:55 pm
Oh no. jaDEB dropped to No.3. What's wrong with you jaDEB? Feeling sick I suppose. Get more tablets.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moonraker on October 30, 2013, 06:47:29 pm
Could you let me know when Redefine International stock will be converted to RI Plc and relect the correct price?
Done and dusted. (suspended 0n 28/10; to be delisted 4/11)

The salient dates and times applicable to the transaction are set out below:
                                                                                                       2013
Results of the general meeting and finalisation announcement published on                Friday, 18 October
SENS on

Results of the general meeting and finalisation announcement published in the            Monday, 21 October
press on

Last day to trade in RIN linked units on the JSE                                         Friday, 25 October

RIN linked units suspended “ex” the unbundling                                           Monday, 28 October

Proposed listing date of RI PLC on the JSE from the commencement of trade on             Monday, 28 October

Trading in RI PLC shares with the JSE share code: RPL and ISIN:                          Monday, 28 October
IM00B8BV8G91 commences on


Record date to participate in the unbundling and the de-listing                          Friday, 1 November

Tax apportionment announcement pursuant to the unbundling                                Friday, 1 November

Accounts at CSDP or broker updated in respect of dematerialised RIN linked               Monday, 4 November
unitholders


RI PLC share certificates posted to certificated RIN linked unitholders on or            Monday, 4 November
about

De-listing of RIN linked units from the JSE at commencement of trade                     Monday, 4 November
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on October 31, 2013, 03:36:58 pm
Just a warning to people who have buying/selling orders in the market. The JSE is upgrading its trading engine over the weekend 9th and 10th November and according to my brokers all orders outstanding past these dates will be terminated on 8th November and if you want to extend them for a further period you will have to replace these orders on Monday 11th November
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on November 01, 2013, 08:59:02 am
Yeah!!! MO MONEY today.....
What to buy.... What to buy.......??
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on November 01, 2013, 08:38:26 pm
Orca, see you stocked up on some more cml, your top performer, I stocked up on some more gfi, my bottom performer.

Jadeb and patrick still to decide, sj the cheater with a loophole also quiet :)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on November 04, 2013, 08:34:18 am
Yeah!!! MO MONEY today.....
What to buy.... What to buy.......??
Went for DSY - looking for a 5-8 % upswing in price by year end (well, competition end anyway).
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 04, 2013, 08:41:24 am
Jadeb and patrick still to decide

I was feeling hungry, so I went for some FBR.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on November 04, 2013, 09:15:02 am
Jadeb and patrick still to decide

I was feeling hungry, so I went for some FBR.

Also felt hungry, bought more fishies . . .
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on November 04, 2013, 09:52:57 am
Patrick - do you have a problem with your prices - GFI has reflected a price of 46.01 for some time now?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 04, 2013, 09:56:30 am
Patrick - do you have a problem with your prices - GFI has reflected a price of 46.01 for some time now?
Just the usual monday morning JSE link melt down. I've switched to reuters and bloomberg, should be up to date in the next 10 minutes.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on November 04, 2013, 09:59:47 am
Ta
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: jaDEB on November 04, 2013, 11:01:07 am
 :frustrated: Patrick, does that mean I am not going to win the Bar - one.

1

VW_Mk1

R5,822,099.10

429.28%

RIN

 REDEFINE PROP INT LTD

607272

19

780

3914.31%

R4,736,721.60

81.36%
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 04, 2013, 11:22:17 am
Another early retiree!

Ok can someone try decode this sens:
http://www.sharenet.co.za/free/sens/disp_news.phtml?tdate=20131018114500&seq=21&scheme=default

Obviously I need to adjust the number of shares held, but I have no clue what the ratio is this time???
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moonraker on November 04, 2013, 01:45:31 pm
Patrick,

It was a one for one spin off. Last price of RIN was 780 (i.e. price before suspension and subsequent delisting).
RPL started trading on JSE 28/10
VW's gain is thus "0"  O:-) --unless the price has gone up in the meantime.

There will be a dividend 'in specie' of  57.92cpu without the deduction of witholding tax (as I see it). See http://www.sharenet.co.za/v3/sens_display.php?tdate=20131101120800&seq=24
I am not sure exactly when the div. will be paid, but I think on 29/11/13






Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 04, 2013, 02:24:19 pm
Ah ok, somehow he bought on the 1st of Nov for 13c a share. I assume there was some hold on that day so it should have been impossible to purchase correct? If that's the case I'll just roll back the transaction.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moonraker on November 04, 2013, 03:12:27 pm
Ah ok, somehow he bought on the 1st of Nov for 13c a share. I assume there was some hold on that day so it should have been impossible to purchase correct? If that's the case I'll just roll back the transaction.
He purchased them in April. I hold those in my real portfolio and would have been crying if the price went from 780 to 13c (or 19c on some sites). Their closing price on suspension date was 780 (the last price at which RIN traded ) - as confirmed in my brokers statement.

The challenge will be to get the div. right.

Once you have corrected this, JaDEB will creep up the board again, for which I want special thanks.  :))
Mind you further upwards movement is pretty limited for him.  ;)

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 04, 2013, 03:18:52 pm
I'm still confused. This is what I see (http://www.investorchallenge.co.za/com_holdings_public.php?user_id=234):
Code: [Select]
Code Name No. of shares Ave. cost (excl fees) Current price % growth Value % of portfolio
RDF Redefine Properties Ltd 19433 1013 1010 -0.26% R196,273.30 3.37%
RIN REDEFINE PROP INT LTD 607272 19 780 3914.31% R4,736,721.60 81.34%

Purchase date Code Name No. of shares Purchase price Cost incl. fees
2013-04-25 11:19:01 RDF Redefine Properties Ltd 9433 1060 R100,389.76
2013-11-01 20:49:11 RIN REDEFINE PROP INT LTD 600000 13 R78,312.00
Now it could be that the backup links are confusing things today, but surely either the number of RIN shares, or the price per share was incorrect. Or RIN should have not been purchasable on the 1st of Nov...
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moonraker on November 04, 2013, 03:39:05 pm
Ah I see, didn't look carefully and saw only RDF - different kettle of fish.
But yes, it is confusing as although RIN was suspended on 28/10/13, they were only delisted on 4/11/13.
He could not have purchased any RIN after 25/10/13 (a Friday), but certainly was able to purcahse RPL on
1/11/13 as trading in them commenced on Monday 28/10/13.

Basically the Purchase date entry should read:-

RPL    REDEFINE INTERNATIONAL PLC
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Last day to trade in RIN linked units on the JSE                                         Friday, 25 October

RIN linked units suspended “ex” the unbundling                                           Monday, 28 October

Proposed listing date of RI PLC on the JSE from the commencement of trade on             Monday, 28 October

Trading in RI PLC shares with the JSE share code: RPL and ISIN:                          Monday, 28 October
IM00B8BV8G91 commences on

Record date to participate in the unbundling and the de-listing                          Friday, 1 November

Tax apportionment announcement pursuant to the unbundling                                Friday, 1 November

Accounts at CSDP or broker updated in respect of dematerialised RIN linked               Monday, 4 November
unitholders

RI PLC share certificates posted to certificated RIN linked unitholders on or            Monday, 4 November
about

De-listing of RIN linked units from the JSE at commencement of trade                     Monday, 4 November
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on November 04, 2013, 05:58:01 pm
Date   Close   High   Low   Volume
01/11/2013   13   13   13   0
31/10/2013   13   13   13   0
30/10/2013   13   13   13   0
29/10/2013   13   13   13   0
28/10/2013   13   13   13   0
25/10/2013   780   806   780   676,212

They could not be traded at time. The 13c must have been listed as a price for some other purpose. The share had been suspended.

So the whole transaction in the money game is null and void.

Kansvatters ek se
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on November 04, 2013, 09:27:03 pm
Whats the chance GFI bring out a good report on the 20th, I am really doing some bad investing here :frustrated:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on November 04, 2013, 10:24:04 pm
Whats the chance GFI bring out a good report on the 20th, I am really doing some bad investing here :frustrated:
Keep with GFI and you can use it in 2 ways (presuming you have it in your private portfolio as I do - 4000) you can hold and wait for the price to improve - and I do believe that it will as most of their assets are offshore these days. Use it as part of your tax rebate on CGT when you sell in a particular tax year. Also if you hold shares in your private name/nominees get to the AGM and vote Nic Holland out of his position
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on November 05, 2013, 06:32:34 pm
I have 4600 in my real portfolio and the only share at a slight loss. But I expect it to recover soon, Or else I suppose I would not have started buying them recently.

But i,m the impatient type and they are not doing their thing yet :)

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Nios on November 07, 2013, 01:49:43 pm
Does anybody know whats going on with FGL past few days? My challenge position has moved from around 260 to 192 due to 22% gain on FGL
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on November 07, 2013, 02:41:19 pm
There must be something going to happen or rumours. The volumes have also shot through the roof.

I don,t see that their results warrant the price

Date   Close   High   Low   Volume
06/11/2013   250   250   236   822,546
05/11/2013   236   236   226   688,808
04/11/2013   225   230   223   336,785
01/11/2013   223   223   212   124,244
31/10/2013   212   219   212   107,948
30/10/2013   212   220   210   41,164
29/10/2013   210   215   210   53,841
28/10/2013   211   219   210   204,502
25/10/2013   214   215   208   33,627
24/10/2013   208   212   205   177,143
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Nios on November 07, 2013, 06:38:59 pm
Well  I notched up the ladder 75 places tday...All in a days work. Mainly down to 12% gain today in fgl,1.48% on sol,1% on vod.

Fgl did over 1mil in volume. Keen to see what happens tomorrow. Wonder if this one could be another Capitec...
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on November 07, 2013, 09:46:01 pm
Not with the financials they have.

Would appear to be bit of manipulation, most probably the next BFS
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Nios on November 09, 2013, 01:28:56 pm
I'm here to learn...competition or not  ;)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on November 09, 2013, 08:08:35 pm
Well  I notched up the ladder 75 places tday...All in a days work. Mainly down to 12% gain today in fgl,1.48% on sol,1% on vod.

Fgl did over 1mil in volume. Keen to see what happens tomorrow. Wonder if this one could be another Capitec...

That will perhaps teach you to pick stocks that are not volatile and cyclical.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 10, 2013, 09:50:35 am
I'm here to learn...competition or not  ;)
Code: [Select]
CML CORONATION FUND MNGRS LD 2737 7357 8380 13.9% R229,360.60 18.99%
FGL Finbond Group Ltd 44267 225 292 29.78% R129,259.64 10.7%
SOL Sasol Limited 639 46650 50598 8.46% R323,321.22 26.77%
STXIND Satrix INDI Portfolio 8273 4835 5202 7.59% R430,361.46 35.63%
VOD Vodacom Group Ltd 830 11850 11492 -3.02% R95,383.60 7.9%
Quite a good looking portfolio. Your only losing share is Vodacom, and their dividend will make up for that.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Nios on November 10, 2013, 01:06:28 pm
Thanks Patrick, I took a chance with FGL knowing very well that the bulk of my portfolio is invested in STXIND25 and strong bluechips. I cant see Vodacom staying down too long as I think it should be trading at the same price if not better than MTN. I have not compared their fundamentals though, but Vodacom does have the most market share, and has much better network coverage and customer service from my experience.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on November 12, 2013, 08:04:19 pm
Fgl has really been a upset/upbeat share that few have punted but turned the game on its head.

Patrick how are going to handle the Abl right issue. Can the holders take up their rights from their last deposit in december or will they just forfeit them and retain what they have
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on November 12, 2013, 08:26:09 pm
Fgl has really been a upset/upbeat share that few have punted but turned the game on its head.

Patrick how are going to handle the Abl right issue. Can the holders take up their rights from their last deposit in december or will they just forfeit them and retain what they have

or be able to sell their rights? :wtf:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 12, 2013, 08:52:30 pm
Patrick how are going to handle the Abl right issue. Can the holders take up their rights from their last deposit in december or will they just forfeit them and retain what they have

I'm hoping for some suggestions. What would be considered to be the fairest?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on November 12, 2013, 09:00:41 pm
both - allowed to sell the rights or buy the rights shares
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 15, 2013, 07:35:43 am
both - allowed to sell the rights or buy the rights shares

Giving the option would be a tough ask. I'd like to fix on one solution. Either assume everyone would sell their rights and just increase the total cash on hand, the easiest solution, if I can figure out what the sale price of the rights is. Option B is to assume everyone would exercise their rights and allocate the right amount of shares to people. This could be a little problematic as I have to do that before the next deposit, and let the cash go into negative until the deposit has been made.

What generally happens in a case like this, do most people exercise their rights or sell their rights? And if they sell, is there a standard price?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Shi on November 15, 2013, 09:22:53 am
I think the exercising of the rights would be the easier option because the main issue with selling the rights is determining the price. You can ask 5 people and they will give you 5 different answers.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on November 15, 2013, 11:58:16 am
Patrick, I think most people would take up their rights, so let's go that route
The problem could however be, as in my case, that I will need more than R100k to take all my rights - In such cases, we can maybe let the person take up all their rights, letting the account go negative and then sell the number of shares required immediately to return the account balance to zero or if that is too complicated, maybe allow ABL holders to have a negative cash balance?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on November 18, 2013, 12:20:25 pm
Hey Patrick, JSE delays not playing ball again?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 18, 2013, 12:30:42 pm
Hey Patrick, JSE delays not playing ball again?

Well it is a Monday... Backup now on  8)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on November 19, 2013, 09:25:36 am
Rare Holdings - RAR
Seems like they had a 100:1 share consolidation. Those holding the share in the challenge have suddenly become millionaires with massive growth (e.g. RAR RARE HOLDINGS LTD 500000 6 800 13233.33% R4,000,000.00 76.81%)
Found this in a SENS released in July -
Quote
Consolidation
The Board proposes that the company consolidate its authorised and issued share capital on a basis of 100:1 (subsequent to the Share Increase) with the aim of easing the administrative burden and costs incurred by the company in dealing with such a large number of shares.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 19, 2013, 02:24:07 pm
Rare Holdings - RAR
Seems like they had a 100:1 share consolidation. Those holding the share in the challenge have suddenly become millionaires with massive growth (e.g. RAR RARE HOLDINGS LTD 500000 6 800 13233.33% R4,000,000.00 76.81%)
Found this in a SENS released in July -
Quote
Consolidation
The Board proposes that the company consolidate its authorised and issued share capital on a basis of 100:1 (subsequent to the Share Increase) with the aim of easing the administrative burden and costs incurred by the company in dealing with such a large number of shares.
Was looking for a sens, thanks will update tonight.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on November 19, 2013, 05:37:08 pm
Rare Holdings - RAR
Seems like they had a 100:1 share consolidation. Those holding the share in the challenge have suddenly become millionaires with massive growth (e.g. RAR RARE HOLDINGS LTD 500000 6 800 13233.33% R4,000,000.00 76.81%)
Found this in a SENS released in July -
Quote
Consolidation
The Board proposes that the company consolidate its authorised and issued share capital on a basis of 100:1 (subsequent to the Share Increase) with the aim of easing the administrative burden and costs incurred by the company in dealing with such a large number of shares.
Was looking for a sens, thanks will update tonight.

Fixed, only one person held that share, another reason to remove penny shares from next years challenge!
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on November 22, 2013, 01:33:27 pm
Just answer this Griffin. Would you invest your grandparents money into penny stocks? Realy? I doubt you would.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on November 22, 2013, 02:13:17 pm
However the majority of the traders in this competition would most probably agree with you.

Yes we do.  :) 
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: SuperVan on December 02, 2013, 11:56:33 am
I see the prices isnt updating
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on December 02, 2013, 12:09:01 pm
I see the prices isnt updating

On the backup link now, give it 20 minutes.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on December 02, 2013, 12:22:45 pm
Patrick, have you decided how to handle the ABL shares after the rights issue?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on December 02, 2013, 12:26:09 pm
Patrick, have you decided how to handle the ABL shares after the rights issue?

Exercising the rights, even if it means holders end up in negative cash. I'll have to figure out how to script it soon, then I'll try apply it this afternoon/evening.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on December 02, 2013, 12:30:12 pm
Patrick, have you decided how to handle the ABL shares after the rights issue?

Exercising the rights, even if it means holders end up in negative cash. I'll have to figure out how to script it soon, then I'll try apply it this afternoon/evening.

that makes sense - thanks Boet!
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on December 03, 2013, 01:39:28 pm
Patrick, have you decided how to handle the ABL shares after the rights issue?

Exercising the rights, even if it means holders end up in negative cash. I'll have to figure out how to script it soon, then I'll try apply it this afternoon/evening.

that makes sense - thanks Boet!

Ok, I've run the script, your holdings are updated.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 01:54:18 pm
thanks Patrick  :TU:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on December 03, 2013, 06:14:18 pm
I note that I bought 2496 GFI at 04.03 on 2013/12/03 while l was sleeping? :o
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 07:14:28 pm
I note that I bought 2496 GFI at 04.03 on 2013/12/03 while l was sleeping? :o

did you get them at good price?  :))
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on December 03, 2013, 07:23:23 pm
And check out when Bundu last edited his comment:
Quote
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Clearly I've invented time travel and I didn't even know it!

What time did you buy the shares tgg?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on December 03, 2013, 09:43:33 pm
I was going to buy them today and then noted I already had. I do not recall the transaction, confused the shit out of me, Can,t think that I was that pissed this week either.

My internet history does confirm that i checked out the challenge at 10pm on the 2nd and 18.14 on the 3rd, but i did not do any transactions.

don,t suppose you can check the ip that did it. I could also be losing it I suppose

10:06 PM
- The Investor Challenge
www.shareforum.co.za


10:05 PM
- The Investor Challenge
www.investorchallenge.co.za


10:04 PM
- The Investor Challenge
www.shareforum.co.za


10:03 PM
ShareForum Challenge
www.shareforum.co.za


10:03 PM
- The Investor Challenge
www.shareforum.co.za


10:03 PM
- The Investor Challenge
www.shareforum.co.za


10:02 PM
- The Investor Challenge
www.shareforum.co.za


10:02 PM
- The Investor Challenge
www.investorchallenge.co.za


10:00 PM
- The Investor Chall
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on December 03, 2013, 10:39:37 pm
I vote for you losing it  :D

It lists your most recent IPs, but they might only have been recorded when you wrote a post. I've PM'd you the list.

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on December 04, 2013, 11:18:53 am
The time is incorrect. I bought NPN just after 11am and it shows that I bought at around 5pm. Or perhaps I'm also loosing it.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on December 04, 2013, 11:39:27 am
The time is incorrect. I bought NPN just after 11am and it shows that I bought at around 5pm. Or perhaps I'm also loosing it.

Thanks, it was a timezone issue, it's fixed now.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on December 06, 2013, 06:25:22 pm
So i had to much to drink, or alzheimers is setting in :)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Orca on December 06, 2013, 08:08:22 pm
Reminds me of when I was trading FX. Could only do so after work when I was having some cold ones that gave me courage to place orders. The next afternoon I would see stuff that I forgot to close and never remembered opening them. Had to leave them to run for months to get back into profit.
Needless to say, I lost R130K after a margin call.  :LHST:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: gcr on December 06, 2013, 08:25:42 pm
Patrick - I see that your final prices for shares seems to be taken as per the start of the afternoon auction. Maybe you should reconsider using closing prices as end of day after the auction has been concluded. Would make my position just look a bit better :LHST:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on December 17, 2013, 12:42:10 pm
CVN - CONVERGENET HOLDINGS LIMITED
10:1 Share consolidation on 13th December
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on December 18, 2013, 09:15:18 am
CVN - CONVERGENET HOLDINGS LIMITED
10:1 Share consolidation on 13th December

Thanks, I'll process it soon.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on December 23, 2013, 06:09:53 pm
I note that TCS was suspended today, whats happens if they in ones portfolio, NIL value, a total loss or do they stay there at last traded price.

I would think a total loss and nil value as the shares can,t trade
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on December 23, 2013, 06:40:59 pm
I note that TCS was suspended today, whats happens if they in ones portfolio, NIL value, a total loss or do they stay there at last traded price.

I would think a total loss and nil value as the shares can,t trade


Isn't the competition over in any case?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on December 23, 2013, 09:52:55 pm
Yep, contest is done with the winning blog post on the way. All prices are locked on Fridays values so the leaderboard is finalised. Congrats Griffin  :TU:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on December 27, 2013, 07:40:35 pm
well done Griffin :TU:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on January 02, 2014, 09:10:45 pm
As the game past is now history, it may be fun to save the first games bought on record and update the prices to see where they end next year, ie challenge 1.

and bit of glance in the past, no need to just kill it

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Nios on January 02, 2014, 10:21:15 pm
As the game past is now history, it may be fun to save the first games bought on record and update the prices to see where they end next year, ie challenge 1.

and bit of glance in the past, no need to just kill it
Agreed, that will be interesting to see if you could do it patrick.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on January 04, 2014, 09:09:05 pm
We'll done Griff!  :TU: 

Now, do it again.  >:D
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on January 04, 2014, 09:22:32 pm
I thought we would start again on 2Jan14......  :-[

edit: sorry, just saw we're going on Monday  :TU:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: aae on January 08, 2014, 02:56:16 pm
these competitions have always had a issue in the past where someone buys shares that are not very liquid, e,g . If I had bought selco with all my money I would be 131% up today.

but that not be a true reflection as they hardly trade and there would be no hope of me selling or realising my profit.

Should you not have a cap on purchases related to the shares average volume

And it did not take to long to happen this year, games a farce
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on January 08, 2014, 03:14:06 pm
these competitions have always had a issue in the past where someone buys shares that are not very liquid, e,g . If I had bought selco with all my money I would be 131% up today.

but that not be a true reflection as they hardly trade and there would be no hope of me selling or realising my profit.

Should you not have a cap on purchases related to the shares average volume

And it did not take to long to happen this year, games a farce

I have to unfortunately agree - I see new No 1 on the leader-board, bought a share, that would have taken him more than a week to get the quantity he owns - he could no sell the lot at a massive profit, even if the real market would only accept 1% of his holdings
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on January 08, 2014, 03:17:07 pm
these competitions have always had a issue in the past where someone buys shares that are not very liquid, e,g . If I had bought selco with all my money I would be 131% up today.

but that not be a true reflection as they hardly trade and there would be no hope of me selling or realising my profit.

Should you not have a cap on purchases related to the shares average volume

And it did not take to long to happen this year, games a farce

I have to unfortunately agree - I see new No 1 on the leader-board, bought a share, that would have taken him more than a week to get the quantity he owns - he could no sell the lot at a massive profit, even if the real market would only accept 1% of his holdings

Also agree, see my other thread now, how do we find the infrequently traded shares to remove them?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on January 13, 2014, 08:37:14 pm
100ways has still got abit to go before he was bought and sold all available stocks, he should keep me from being last though :))
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: aae on January 29, 2014, 09:53:11 pm
You have some meaningful stats yet for this year after the first month.

Going to be a different one.

Don,t see your normal investment type shares performing.  My portfolio was down near last in the first challenge.

Suppose shit happens.

Should anyone wonder tgg78703 and aae are the same person. One is at home with a few dops in his arse and the other at work with a hangover.

Neither make good investments
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on January 29, 2014, 10:10:27 pm
...........
Should anyone wonder tgg78703 and aae are the same person. One is at home with a few dops in his arse and the other at work with a hangover.

Neither make good investments
:LHST:
this year will be very different - my private portfolio is doing extremely well so far
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on January 30, 2014, 06:33:28 pm
You have some meaningful stats yet for this year after the first month.
...
Should anyone wonder tgg78703 and aae are the same person. One is at home with a few dops in his arse and the other at work with a hangover.

Neither make good investments
Just this: http://www.investorchallenge.co.za/com_share_stats.php

And in this world I make fairly lousy choices too... Fortunately I don't buy the same in reality!
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: aae on January 30, 2014, 08:55:48 pm
Makes for interesting reading. some people went for last years winners, some for last years losers(me).

There does however appear to be some merit in the fact that a decent percentage of the persons playing the game are really into investing and have not been close to the wrong sectors.

Did note that cml seems to the big hit. Also surprised with all the interest in bti
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on March 03, 2014, 06:25:46 pm
Avg cost goes weird if you only sell portion of a holding


ABL    African Bank Inv Ltd   641   2718   1014   -62.69%   R6,499.74   2.3%
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on March 03, 2014, 06:36:02 pm
What should your remaining average cost be?
At the moment I do this (pseudocode), for a sale, the number of shares is negative:
price_per_share = 0;
Repeat for all transactions of the same stock symbol;
price_per_share = price_per_share + number_of_shares*stock_price/number_of_shares;
End repeat;

Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on March 03, 2014, 10:42:41 pm
Don't confuse me

I don't write computer code I buy and sell shares.Seems I should rather be into computer code and leave shares alone.

If you check my buy and sell on my account you will get to the answer sooner, it does not affect my end value. But my average cost has gone funny, it went up to R27.18 for abl and if someone has bought abl at that price this year. The pope is a protestant, or me a  hells angel ;)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on March 03, 2014, 11:17:30 pm
How's it look now? If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0.
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on March 04, 2014, 08:46:53 am
ABL    African Bank Inv Ltd   17641   1072   1014   -5.42%   R178,879.74   63.27%
AEG    Aveng Group Limited   4410   2485   2194   -11.72%   R96,755.40   34.22%
SHP    Shoprite Holdings Ltd   1930   14053   14292   1.7%   R275,835.60   97.56%

 ???
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: tgg78703 on March 04, 2014, 06:10:42 pm
Why is current holdings showing all shares bought to date and not only current holdings. Those sold are still showing in current holdings but not included in the total
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on March 05, 2014, 01:59:07 am
post midnight coding :wall:
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Aragorn on March 05, 2014, 08:25:19 am
post midnight coding :wall:
Far too brave Patrick.....
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Moneypenny on March 05, 2014, 09:07:33 am
Agree A, we have to set P free now. ;)
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Patrick on March 05, 2014, 09:28:26 am
Wasn't this site, I'm busy porting a blackberry app to android. Steep learning curve!
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: alf101 on April 03, 2014, 02:35:15 pm
Why is YRK - York timber not available to buy?
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Bundu on April 03, 2014, 03:20:59 pm
Why is YRK - York timber not available to buy?

my guess would be too illiquid
Title: Re: investor challenge
Post by: Icarium on April 03, 2014, 03:35:15 pm
Any chance you could add a column to the 2013 results to show the current growth figures? Would be interesting to see how the "investments" we made last year are doing...