The JSE and finance forum for South Africa
General Category => Shares => Topic started by: Pluto on May 06, 2015, 09:57:21 am
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Hi,
If you don't mind me asking and if you don't mind sharing a bit, what instruments do you all use to invest?
I currently put a bit into unit trusts each month and also have a long term share portfolio that I add to every now and then when I have spare cash.
Played around with CFDs a while back (it didn't go too well :) ) ... planning on getting back into them shortly, just need to sort a few things out before.
Also have a 1 bedroom place that I rent out and will sort out a TFSA in a month or 2.
Thanks!
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could not trust myself with CFD's - I am way to good at selling "sure things" to my self. Otherwise 100% into equities - but have around 30% of that in REITS. Have a tiny RA which I stopped due to dismal performance (thanks Allan Grey) - and have a TFSA with ETF's.
Although am weighing up the pro's and cons of turning a garage at the back of my property into two self catering flats.
maths as follows:
Flats: R300K Max to convert - rented out @ R500 per night every weekend = R104K Call it R80K after expenses.
Shares: Return on R300k around R15K per year from dividends
Capital Growth:
Flat: Lets say it doubles after 10 years so R600K
Shares: Double every 5 years so R1.2mill
Total return on 10 years: Flat 800 + 600 = R1.4mill vs shares 1.2 + 150K R1.35
****Not taking into account inflation. Dividends usually grow quicker than inflation / I might get a better occupancy rate - would aim it at weekly business guys. Probably would invest some of that new cash flow. But looking at our house price, think R450 would be what I would get with the flats.
But ball park figures - I sway between the two. The extra cash flow would be great - but it will cut into my err, watching TV, napping, reading the newspaper and generally buggering around time.
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I just buy shares, do not know CFD's. Tried warrants, but burned my ??? ss. I should learn about CFD's ....... :frustrated:
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I use FNB's Share Saver to have a sizable amount in the top40+midcap, have a TFSA with ETFs, an investment with Stanlib, an RA and some just-in-case money.
Might consider a property at some stage, but not too soon.
Other than that I play around with some spare $$$ and losing it thanks to Aspen :p
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Nice reading your goals and Ideas Mr Dividend . :TU:
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I've gone from 100% property (my house and two rental apartments) to 100% equity over the last few years.
In my case equities have far exceeded property. I have invested in unit trusts before, but I don't like the fees, so now I do an even split between the Satrix Indi and the eRafi indi in my regular portfolio and my tax free portfolio.
Don't think I could make more through CFDs, I would quite likely lose cash and gain stress.
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Flats: R300K Max to convert - rented out @ R500 per night every weekend = R104K Call it R80K after expenses.
Shares: Return on R300k around R15K per year from dividends
Capital Growth:
Flat: Lets say it doubles after 10 years so R600K
Shares: Double every 5 years so R1.2mill
I would imagine that dividends generally stay fairly consistent percentage wise, so the 15k could be 30k after 5 years, and 60k after 10. Might change the way the numbers look.
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I stopped doing SSF's because I have an illness that cost me dearly. It is called FOLO or Fear Of Loosing Out.
I could not wait in cash due to my fear that I will loose out if I wait or hold on to a winning punt too long.
So if you have FOLO then stay out of futures.
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I've gone from 100% property (my house and two rental apartments) to 100% equity over the last few years.
In my case equities have far exceeded property. I have invested in unit trusts before, but I don't like the fees, so now I do an even split between the Satrix Indi and the eRafi indi in my regular portfolio and my tax free portfolio.
Don't think I could make more through CFDs, I would quite likely lose cash and gain stress.
Only *INDI?
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Played around with CFDs a while back (it didn't go too well :) ) ... planning on getting back into them shortly, just need to sort a few things out before.
There is nothing quite like an open Asli CFD to keep you awake 24/7.
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Used to trade alsi futures four years ago, all-day, every-day until I realised that’s all I do and think about.
These days CFD’s on stocks only with an occasional alsi thrown in-between but only 1 or 2 contracts at a time, never 12-15 as before & in and out quickly. Thinking back, I must have been totally nuts and will not recommend it to anybody. It kind-off evolved into an all consuming beast, it was intense and fun but I'm not going back there.
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Only *INDI?
Yes, though if I said I invested in NPN, SAB, CFR, MTN, SOL, BTI, SHF, REM, APN, BVT, MNP, WHL, SHP, NTC, MPC, MDC, TBS, VOD, LHC, TRU, IPL, TFG, MND, TKG, PFG and KIO people would probably say nice companies, but aren't you over diversified!
The current breakdown in the indi is:
Consumer Goods: 40.48%
Consumer Services: 23.96%
Telecommunications: 12.45%
Basic Materials: 9.88%
Industrials: 6.7%
Health Care: 6.56%
Which to me looks fairly well covered. You could also arue that you've got plenty of foreign money involved in those companies too. The only thing I would consider adding is some financials at some time. Your thoughts?
Edit for interest sakeI checked out the erafi indi basket:
Telecommunications (36.74%)
Consumer Goods (27.07%)
Industrials (13.63%)
Consumer Services (10.8%)
Basic Materials (8.26%)
Health Care (2.05%)
That leaves me with an average of
Consumer Goods (25.5%)
Telecommunications (24.6%)
Industrials (10.2%)
Consumer Services (17.4%)
Basic Materials (9.1%)
Health Care (4.3%)
Looking at that, I would like some more healthcare...
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But Patrick - each and every month, you, I and every one else, gives money to Financials. Insurance or banks - they seem to take a cut from everyone - each and every month and because of that have the "overweight" in my portfolio.
Which I must say, does a hell of a lot better than my IC portfolio - where I am obviously following the teachings and wise mutterings of Ja-, but high, sell low- DEB. I have a feeling he will eventually tell his pupils that, " learning from mistakes, very important. Making mistakes on free website, not real, priceless." or something to that effect.
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Only *INDI?
Yes, though if I said I invested in NPN, SAB, CFR, MTN, SOL, BTI, SHF, REM, APN, BVT, MNP, WHL, SHP, NTC, MPC, MDC, TBS, VOD, LHC, TRU, IPL, TFG, MND, TKG, PFG and KIO people would probably say nice companies, but aren't you over diversified!
The current breakdown in the indi is:
Consumer Goods: 40.48%
Consumer Services: 23.96%
Telecommunications: 12.45%
Basic Materials: 9.88%
Industrials: 6.7%
Health Care: 6.56%
Which to me looks fairly well covered. You could also arue that you've got plenty of foreign money involved in those companies too. The only thing I would consider adding is some financials at some time. Your thoughts?
Edit for interest sakeI checked out the erafi indi basket:
Telecommunications (36.74%)
Consumer Goods (27.07%)
Industrials (13.63%)
Consumer Services (10.8%)
Basic Materials (8.26%)
Health Care (2.05%)
That leaves me with an average of
Consumer Goods (25.5%)
Telecommunications (24.6%)
Industrials (10.2%)
Consumer Services (17.4%)
Basic Materials (9.1%)
Health Care (4.3%)
Looking at that, I would like some more healthcare...
I like it. I would add DBXWD or US to it but that's just me. Think you know a bit more about this :p
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Flats: R300K Max to convert - rented out @ R500 per night every weekend = R104K Call it R80K after expenses.
Shares: Return on R300k around R15K per year from dividends
Capital Growth:
Flat: Lets say it doubles after 10 years so R600K
Shares: Double every 5 years so R1.2mill
I would imagine that dividends generally stay fairly consistent percentage wise, so the 15k could be 30k after 5 years, and 60k after 10. Might change the way the numbers look.
True - but then rental would also increase - but more in line with inflation though. Still mulling over it - need to look at cost to convert, but doubt I could get it below R250K - might even be more. Weirdly, I am sure it would be reasonably successful - especially vs the time it takes to run it and set up cost are not ridicules and on the whole I would get that back when I sell.
So if someone came to me with this as a business plan - I probably would say, go for it - it's a solid business plan. Yet weirdly it losses it's shine when compared to decent expect gains on the JSE of capital growth of 15% and dividends of 5%. Will be chatting to someone today that has a self catering place - not in my area, but will be interested to find out more.
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Very true, your upside could also be bigger, say for instance you decide to rent them out during the week too. I know people in my complex making a fortune off AirBNB. It's not really passive income, but since your home anyway, it shouldn't tie you down much at all.
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Nothing like a couple of stories of how people treat their holiday accommodation to make me think twice. ???
I'll put the idea on ice for the moment - need to revisit my first business plan and start working on it.
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So similar to my own story. Now I'm buying REITs as well. Very cool. Looking at what the real performance will be like in 10 years time. I hope to tell the tale :whistle:
I've gone from 100% property (my house and two rental apartments) to 100% equity over the last few years.
In my case equities have far exceeded property. I have invested in unit trusts before, but I don't like the fees, so now I do an even split between the Satrix Indi and the eRafi indi in my regular portfolio and my tax free portfolio.
Don't think I could make more through CFDs, I would quite likely lose cash and gain stress.
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So similar to my own story. Now I'm buying REITs as well. Very cool. Looking at what the real performance will be like in 10 years time. I hope to tell the tale :whistle:
I've gone from 100% property (my house and two rental apartments) to 100% equity over the last few years.
In my case equities have far exceeded property. I have invested in unit trusts before, but I don't like the fees, so now I do an even split between the Satrix Indi and the eRafi indi in my regular portfolio and my tax free portfolio.
Don't think I could make more through CFDs, I would quite likely lose cash and gain stress.
Just for an update, as I'm getting closer and closer to calling it quits, I've started buying DIVTRX for the decent dividend and also some growth.
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I've been waiting for the Greek saga to unfold before investing in DIVTRX, INDI and PGR. (PGR for alpha)
So time to get in now but when is a pullback going to happen? Three straight days up big time. Surely the traders should take profit now.
On an interesting note. Simon Brown has a infographic tweet showing that 89% fund managers under perform their index over 1 year and 97% over 5 years. No UT's for me thank you.
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I find it interesting that people look at dividends as a means of support and invest in something like the STXDivi or a tracker fund
Has anybody done the maths on this scenario:-
Having funds invested in a typical fixed deposit for a year or 6 months rolling versus funds ex these ETF for dividends. Many companies pay out less than 6% as a dividend and then it is subjected to dividend tax at 15% and normally paid into your trading account with your brokers. The broker probably also charges annual fees which also spreads your costs for maintaining that account across your dividend receipt albeit a small portion.
It could prove more expeditious to invest in a rolling FD rather than being overly concerned about the attractiveness of dividends. Also if over/under 65 in age you get some relief on interest earned via SARS so this needs to be considered when viewed against a dividend chase
Just my views
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I find it interesting that people look at dividends as a means of support and invest in something like the STXDivi or a tracker fund
Has anybody done the maths on this scenario:-
Having funds invested in a typical fixed deposit for a year or 6 months rolling versus funds ex these ETF for dividends. Many companies pay out less than 6% as a dividend and then it is subjected to dividend tax at 15% and normally paid into your trading account with your brokers. The broker probably also charges annual fees which also spreads your costs for maintaining that account across your dividend receipt albeit a small portion.
It could prove more expeditious to invest in a rolling FD rather than being overly concerned about the attractiveness of dividends. Also if over/under 65 in age you get some relief on interest earned via SARS so this needs to be considered when viewed against a dividend chase
Just my views
Not only are you also getting capital growth but dividends generally out strip inflation:
Think of it this way: person lives of the yield 5 years
1)100K in a 6% cash deposit. end of 5 years, guys still getting 6K every year - which because of inflation, is way less than what he started. And his capital is still sitting on R100K
2) Guys has 100K in divi stock, starting at 5% (for this argument/ clear after taxes and its with EQ so no fees) divi grows at 8% per year and porfolio grows at a modest 12%
Capital will be worth R181 and dividend yield will be R7,500 p/y
My mother in law is going with option one...