Author Topic: US shares - for those with EE accounts  (Read 11318 times)

Mr_Dividend

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US shares - for those with EE accounts
« on: April 24, 2017, 09:51:03 am »
From todays sens:

Quote
Over the next six months we will be adding US shares to the platform and retirement
wrappers, amongst other exciting enhancements that will no doubt continue to
attract new clients and assets to the platform and bring us closer to our vision of
democratising investing for all South Africans.

Patrick

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2017, 10:52:05 am »
This will be great as long as they don't have a custody fee like ABSA does.

Hamster

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2017, 02:31:44 pm »
Add limit orders, a table layout and an allocation graph together with US shares and you have a very very awesome product.

czc

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2017, 02:40:08 pm »
They better hurry up while the Rand is still doing well.

jaDEB

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 04:55:44 pm »
They better hurry up while the Rand is still doing well.

 :whistle:   Agree. Me thinks the same . Some people are turning positive, hope they prove me wrong. Me I am ^&%$#@ negative as the voices in my head allows me to be, only reason why little bit of positive is for my wife and kids sake. ag jaDEB get over it now for &^%$# sakes.
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JohnnyH

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 10:33:05 am »
It looks like they will only offer some US shares, talking about S&P 100 (which I am assuming are the 100 biggest companies) etc.

I do hope we will have access to some of the "boring" big stocks like JNJ, KO etc & not just facebook & Apple etc.

Still, I am excited about having the option!

jaDEB

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 12:18:22 pm »
I am currently looking at opening a account thru my Broker SASFIN that is offshore and I will dabble in Tencent (Actual) Tencent and not NPN. exciting times :)
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shifty

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2017, 09:19:12 am »
Hi,
Have you guys heard this pod cast on offshore investing...
https://justonelap.com/podcast-offshore-investing-candice-paine/

Hamster

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2017, 11:37:04 am »
Hi,
Have you guys heard this pod cast on offshore investing...
https://justonelap.com/podcast-offshore-investing-candice-paine/

Quote
By far the scariest part of this conversation has to do with estate duties. As two of our listeners pointed out, should you die when your money is offshore, you will pay estate duties in the country where you are invested. In the USA and the UK, that is 40%. Think about that for a second. Almost half of your investment gets destroyed simply because you died – as if you had a choice!

Bloody hell! 40%?!

jaDEB

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2017, 02:43:02 pm »
Ditto .. .. .. .. .. .. .  :frustrated:
jaDEB

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Patrick

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2017, 09:08:04 am »
Bloody hell! 40%?!
I wish people would give proper information rather than just spout a single rubbish number.

Here's the real story:
In the US the first $60k is estate tax free, for the rest the tax rates start at 18% for the first $10k, but to get to the 40% bracket you have to have over a $1mil. There is also a potential loophole if you use a trust: https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/us/Documents/Tax/us-tax-us-estate-and-gift-tax-rules-for-resident-and-nonresident-aliens.pdf

In the UK you're far better off. The first £325 000 is tax free, plus if you transfer to your spouse there's no tax. Then if she leaves it to the kids they can get £650 000 tax free.

But wait there's a better way:
I have an Interactive Brokers account in the US which means nothing. I buy an ETF (VWRD) that's listed on the London Stock exchange which also means nothing. The ETF is domiciled in Ireland, now that means something as the following clipping from virtually any irish domiciled fund prospectus:
Quote
However, any gift or inheritance of Shares will be exempt from Irish gift or inheritance tax once:
1. the Shares are comprised in the gift or inheritance both at the date of the gift or inheritance and at the ‘valuation date’ (as defined for Irish capital acquisitions tax purposes);
2. the person from whom the gift or inheritance is taken is neither domiciled nor ordinarily resident in Ireland at the date of the disposition; and
3. the person taking the gift or inheritance is neither domiciled nor ordinarily resident in Ireland at the date of the gift or inheritance.
So if you don't live in Ireland or leave the shares to someone living in Ireland there is no inheritance tax.

Still not convinced. If you're not holding individual shares but ETFs there's more proof from Irish revenue:
Quote
Units in any collective investment undertaking located in the International Financial Services Centre or in the Shannon Customs-Free Airport Zone are exempt from Capital Acquisitions Tax. The exemption also applies to units in Investment Undertakings which qualify for the new collective funds regime introduced by Section 58, Finance Act 2000.
In Ireland they call those funds UCITS funds. What's the full name for VWRD? Yes it's the Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF. No estate duty. Ireland has done an outstanding job positioning themselves as a destination to invest in.

I normally like justonelap, but that post is dangerous as it would discourage people from taking money offshore, meaning they would have to pay far more CGT one day than if they took their money offshore.

Hamster

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2017, 01:04:10 pm »
And that is why I like this forum ^

jaDEB

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2017, 04:33:46 pm »
Ditto
jaDEB

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conradl

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2017, 07:07:04 am »
Patrick, jy is 'n yster! :)

jonb

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Re: US shares - for those with EE accounts
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2017, 11:28:12 am »
Bloody hell! 40%?!
I wish people would give proper information rather than just spout a single rubbish number.

Here's the real story:
In the US the first $60k is estate tax free, for the rest the tax rates start at 18% for the first $10k, but to get to the 40% bracket you have to have over a $1mil. There is also a potential loophole if you use a trust: https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/us/Documents/Tax/us-tax-us-estate-and-gift-tax-rules-for-resident-and-nonresident-aliens.pdf

In the UK you're far better off. The first £325 000 is tax free, plus if you transfer to your spouse there's no tax. Then if she leaves it to the kids they can get £650 000 tax free.

But wait there's a better way:
I have an Interactive Brokers account in the US which means nothing. I buy an ETF (VWRD) that's listed on the London Stock exchange which also means nothing. The ETF is domiciled in Ireland, now that means something as the following clipping from virtually any irish domiciled fund prospectus:
Quote
However, any gift or inheritance of Shares will be exempt from Irish gift or inheritance tax once:
1. the Shares are comprised in the gift or inheritance both at the date of the gift or inheritance and at the ‘valuation date’ (as defined for Irish capital acquisitions tax purposes);
2. the person from whom the gift or inheritance is taken is neither domiciled nor ordinarily resident in Ireland at the date of the disposition; and
3. the person taking the gift or inheritance is neither domiciled nor ordinarily resident in Ireland at the date of the gift or inheritance.
So if you don't live in Ireland or leave the shares to someone living in Ireland there is no inheritance tax.

Still not convinced. If you're not holding individual shares but ETFs there's more proof from Irish revenue:
Quote
Units in any collective investment undertaking located in the International Financial Services Centre or in the Shannon Customs-Free Airport Zone are exempt from Capital Acquisitions Tax. The exemption also applies to units in Investment Undertakings which qualify for the new collective funds regime introduced by Section 58, Finance Act 2000.
In Ireland they call those funds UCITS funds. What's the full name for VWRD? Yes it's the Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF. No estate duty. Ireland has done an outstanding job positioning themselves as a destination to invest in.

I normally like justonelap, but that post is dangerous as it would discourage people from taking money offshore, meaning they would have to pay far more CGT one day than if they took their money offshore.

Once again! excellent information!!!!

 :TU:

My portfolio is held in a Netherlands Bank which I am still active on travelling out there a few times a year and having lived there several years

Do you think its needed to do anything to safeguard against this?