Author Topic: The Rand  (Read 72887 times)

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2016, 09:25:43 pm »
As of now the ZAR has gained over 2% for the day and we have had 6 consecutive days of gains. Now who in their right minds will short the ZAR after a 9 month bull run.
Some traders do but only after an anomalous short term sharp strengthening and getting in on the rebound making it volatile.

Had it not been for our number one doing a No. 1 on the ZAR in his Nkandla toilet we would have a much stronger ZAR.

Interest rates in developed countries are next to nil and even negative so what do the fund managers do? Invest in EM's that have a superior interest rate at 6 to 8%. A no brainer for them. This will strengthen the ZAR.

To top it all, InBev has almost more money than the SA reserve bank has and now has to buy ZAR to pay the investors in ZAR.
This will take weeks of buying so expect more upside for the ZAR.





 
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

yozzi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2016, 11:14:38 am »
I listened to some analysts last night talking about where the Rand is headed and they were saying a realistic level would be R12/$ but they think it will bottom around R13-13.20 in this current cycle

Moonraker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +31/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2016, 03:05:09 pm »
The rand may be cheap versus its theoretical “purchasing power parity” (PPP) level but not by much. According to the PPP model the rand is only 6% cheaper than its fair value of R/$12.80. Following the “Nenegate” debacle last December the rand was 25% undervalued. Admittedly the rand has at times overshot its fair value. For instance, in mid-2010 (during the FIFA World Cup) the rand was 15% above fair value. However, given the threat of a sovereign credit rating downgrade to sub-investment grade, and an economy teetering on the edge of recession it seems unlikely that the rand should be anywhere close to its PPP fair value.
Despite the steady underperformance of “rand hedge” shares since the start of the year, coinciding with the rand’s appreciation, we would recommend exercising patience. The rand hedge stocks listed on the JSE typically exhibit sound prospects in their own right, not only appealing for their rand hedge credentials alone. With the JSE ALSI 40 index now deriving over 70% of its earnings from offshore, an absence of rand hedge shares in an investment portfolio would put it at considerable risk of underperforming the market benchmark.
Given the extent to which the rand has closed-in on its theoretical fair value in spite of the near-recessionary economy, looming credit rating downgrade and rising political uncertainty, the current rand strength offers an excellent opportunity to diversify into offshore markets.

Source: Overberg Asset Managers.
Orca, take note PPP  8)

yozzi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2016, 11:30:43 am »
I'm digressing a bit here but I started with Rands and bought a fair amount of Dollars last week but now I'm looking at buying Sterling with the Dollars with the rate at the moment down to $1.23 to the pound the lowest it's been for years if not ever would you go this route or stick with the Dollars?

My aim is to buy ETF's in Dollars offshore but looking at the Sterling price at $1.23 it's attractive and would just buy the ETF's in Sterling and most of the analysts are saying Brexit is already built into the price and it should be bottoming soon but if I'm going to buy then I'd do it now as a few more cents drop in the rate won't make much difference.

Any opinions? Thanks in advance

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2016, 03:14:21 pm »
I would wait for the uncertainty to pass first.
PROS:
1.The cheap £ will attract more tourists next summer. This will be good for the £.
That's it.
CONS:
1.UK needs 80 000 seasonal fruit and vegie pickers from eastern Europe from July to December. The locals will not do it.
Last summer the agencies could not fill the quota and it is expected that due to the exchange rate, the pickers will stay in Europe mainland countries like Germany and Scandinavia this coming summer.
Farmers will be forced to watch their produce rot and businesses will have to import foods and even beer, wine,vinegar etc.
This will cause prices to rocket and bad for the £.

2. London is the financial hub of Europe and banks will move their HQ's to the continent. One bank has already vacated taking 2 000 employees with them. Bad for the £.

So it is a gamble in my view.

I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Patrick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2552
  • Karma: +47/-2
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2016, 03:18:15 pm »
I'm digressing a bit here but I started with Rands and bought a fair amount of Dollars last week but now I'm looking at buying Sterling with the Dollars with the rate at the moment down to $1.23 to the pound the lowest it's been for years if not ever would you go this route or stick with the Dollars?

My aim is to buy ETF's in Dollars offshore but looking at the Sterling price at $1.23 it's attractive and would just buy the ETF's in Sterling and most of the analysts are saying Brexit is already built into the price and it should be bottoming soon but if I'm going to buy then I'd do it now as a few more cents drop in the rate won't make much difference.

Any opinions? Thanks in advance
Is it the same ETF? If it's something like VWRD in $ or VWRL in pounds it'll make no difference which currency you buy in. The price is dictated to the underlying economies, and with the pound looking weak the pound price will be slightly higher.

But if you're investing in the FTSE 100 vs investing in the S&P 500 then the currency will make a difference. Whether it is a good difference or a bad one is something I can't predict though.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 07:40:00 am by Patrick »

yozzi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2016, 06:28:03 pm »
Thanks guys you make some good points and think I'll wait a while to see what Sterling does

Patrick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2552
  • Karma: +47/-2
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2016, 07:40:43 am »
Oops made a mistake above, I meant to say "VWRD in $ or VWRL in pounds". I've edited it.

yozzi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2016, 04:52:04 pm »
I would wait for the uncertainty to pass first.
PROS:
1.The cheap £ will attract more tourists next summer. This will be good for the £.
That's it.
CONS:
1.UK needs 80 000 seasonal fruit and vegie pickers from eastern Europe from July to December. The locals will not do it.
Last summer the agencies could not fill the quota and it is expected that due to the exchange rate, the pickers will stay in Europe mainland countries like Germany and Scandinavia this coming summer.
Farmers will be forced to watch their produce rot and businesses will have to import foods and even beer, wine,vinegar etc.
This will cause prices to rocket and bad for the £.

2. London is the financial hub of Europe and banks will move their HQ's to the continent. One bank has already vacated taking 2 000 employees with them. Bad for the £.

So it is a gamble in my view.

Orca, all over Sky news now about the banks pulling out

Would you think Sterling will drop further against the Dollar? I read one forecast of $1.09! Not so long ago it was double that! 

Moonraker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +31/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2016, 06:12:12 pm »
UK gov. may propose a 10 % company tax cut (from 20%) to ameliorate the Brexit malaise. If that happens UK will become very attractive, even for EU based companies. Also the interest rate may not be cut again as inflation is picking up due to the weak pound.
I think the bulk of pound deterioration has already occurred.

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2017, 09:36:26 am »
@P. There is no reason for the zar to reverse its bull trend unless shower head fires Pravin after his speech. I doubt he will do that as it will surely look like fiscal capture. All major resistance levels have been breached so we may see sub 12 soon.
Modify message
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

PlatinumWealth.co.za

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
  • Karma: +10/-1
  • Weekend Investor
    • View Profile
    • Platinum Wealth Group
Re: The Rand
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2017, 02:10:48 pm »
I want sub R10
www.PlatinumWealth.co.za <- South African Investment and Finance forum.

jaDEB

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4553
  • Karma: +31/-3
    • View Profile
Re: The Rand
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2017, 03:48:54 pm »
i WaNT sub R14.00  >:(  :wall:  :whistle:
jaDEB

If it scares you, it's a sign you need to do it

PlatinumWealth.co.za

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
  • Karma: +10/-1
  • Weekend Investor
    • View Profile
    • Platinum Wealth Group
Re: The Rand
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2017, 08:29:11 pm »
i WaNT sub R14.00  >:(  :wall:  :whistle:

I am confused
www.PlatinumWealth.co.za <- South African Investment and Finance forum.

Hamster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
  • Karma: +13/-0
    • View Profile
    • Off Topic
Re: The Rand
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2017, 06:27:37 am »