Author Topic: Tax  (Read 265571 times)

Patrick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2551
  • Karma: +47/-2
    • View Profile
Re: What is the use?
« Reply #195 on: February 07, 2014, 09:22:32 am »
Orca is the man for tax, Mr Bond aswell (I think). The first R30 000 is tax free, thus you only pay tax on profits above R30,000 profit. Unless of course they change it.

If I hold the share of 5 companies and sell them all, is the first R30 000 tax free per company or cumulative?

The R30k exemption is for capital gains tax, only applies after you've held for 3 years. For less than three years you add the profit of the sale to your annual income when you do your taxes. Then you pay normal income tax.

Like jaDEB says, your first worry should be making any profit, then you can worry about taxes! Ideally just don't sell for 3 years...

Here's the tax thread, all 13 pages, but some great info in it: http://www.shareforum.co.za/shares/tax/

jaDEB

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4551
  • Karma: +31/-3
    • View Profile
Re: What is the use?
« Reply #196 on: February 07, 2014, 09:57:23 am »
Sorry about giving not 100% correct info. click on my smite button.... :(
jaDEB

If it scares you, it's a sign you need to do it

Delusionsofgrandeur

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 79
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What is the use?
« Reply #197 on: February 07, 2014, 10:24:32 am »
I thought that the R30 000 exclusion was for normal income tax,oops.Also,am I correct in assuming that all the transaction costs in a trade is included in the sell and buy price for tax purposes?

Moonraker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +31/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What is the use?
« Reply #198 on: February 07, 2014, 10:35:12 am »
I thought that the R30 000 exclusion was for normal income tax,oops.Also,am I correct in assuming that all the transaction costs in a trade is included in the sell and buy price for tax purposes?
Yes, transaction fees (brokers fee, strate costs etc.) are included in base cost and proceeds.

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: What is the use?
« Reply #199 on: February 07, 2014, 11:38:54 am »
In my case, I had 2 trading businesses. One was a coffee shop and the other was stock trading as I had not held the stocks for 3 years yet.
So this means that I had 2 incomes and the profits from both must be combined.
A loss from one can be deducted from the gain of the other.

I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Snakepit

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What is the use?
« Reply #200 on: February 07, 2014, 12:48:16 pm »
Orca the other link does not talk about the working man that receives a salary and then takes that after tax money and buy shares with it. That is why I am asking these questions. The moderators are welcome to combine all these tax questions into a single blog.

Okay so the 30 000 is right out the window as I want to move my funds around between shares, especially when shares take a nice dip.

"The R30k exemption is for capital gains tax, only applies after you've held for 3 years. For less than three years you add the profit of the sale to your annual income when you do your taxes. Then you pay normal income tax."

He, so my profit from the sale of the shares will be taxed at my current tax rate! Dem that means I need even more growth to make a profit. Suddenly buying shares does not seem such a good idea at all.

Does all this mean that if I keep shares for 3 years I will be taxed CGT on amount more than R30 000 plus I will be taxed  my current tax rate because it is seen as income?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 12:55:21 pm by Snakepit »

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Tax
« Reply #201 on: February 07, 2014, 02:58:45 pm »
You deduct the Base Cost of the stock you sold from the "Due to you" amount. This will be your gain. If you held it for 3 years or longer, you can deduct R30k from this gain. From this, you add 33.3% to your income. That's it.
To work out your Base Cost I use the weighted average method.
Add all the "Due from you" amounts from the Contract Notes Each stock separately.
Divide this by the number of shares you hold. This is the Base Cost. By using the Due from/to you amounts, you need not work out the costs separately.
Tips.
Keep a flip file for each share.
Print out your Contract Notes and file them. SARS most likely will want them so have them in a folder on your computer as well. You can attach them to e filing.
Keep an updated page of the Base Cost and share movements. SARS will want this as well. I do mine in Excel.
At year end you will get an Account Holdings Analysis. File it as this is the doc that makes your tax simple.

These files are very important for tax and should you expire, it will simplify things for your spouse or kids.

I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Tax
« Reply #202 on: February 07, 2014, 06:01:12 pm »
Part 2. (tax is fun)ny.
If you traded your stocks then here is a simple method to work out your tax.

After tax year close, your broker will send you an account holdings for the tax year. It will have a summary of all your trades.
Cost of Sales. E filing will ask for this amount.

COS = Opening stock value at cost. Plus purchases at cost. Less closing stock at cost.

Opening Stock will be in shares and not Rand value. This you must work out yourself. From the above post. Work out your base cost and multiply it by the amount of shares. Do this with all your shares shown in Open Stock. Open Stock are shares bought the previous year and brought forward to this year.
Do the same with Closing Stock to get the Rand value at your base cost.

Now you have your Cost of Sales. From this you must deduct Sales. E filing will ask for Sales and do the sum for you. The doc I referred to above will have Total Sales in Rands and will include costs. Use this amount.

Now you can deduct internet costs. (I deducted R1900.00 with no problem). Forget about that little Office space costs as it gets too complicated.
If you have a gain, the Source Code is 2514.

Done. All business owners must use this method.

Tip.
Make a note in your file as to this years Closing Stock Value as it will be next years Opening Stock Value. (Balance Sheet).Will save you stacks of time.

If in doubt, ask Moon. He taught me all this stuff.





« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 06:06:28 pm by Orca »
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Snakepit

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Tax
« Reply #203 on: February 09, 2014, 08:05:35 pm »
ORCA, dem, that really is a mouthful! Thanks, but I'm still a bit lost.

1. In a nutshell, are you saying that as a man that works for a salary, I would deduct all costs for having the shares from my total profit,  then if the 3 year rule applies, deduct a total of R30 000 from my total remaining profit and then what ever is left, I add 33.3 % of that to my income statement for tax purposes?

2. What if my tax rate is 40% or is the most you will pay 33.3%?

3. I'm not sure if this was clearly answered - The R30 000 - If I have shares in 10 companies and sell them all in one go, after holding for 3 years, is the R30 000 on the profit per company or on all the companies profit combined?

Snakepit

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Tax
« Reply #204 on: February 09, 2014, 09:08:55 pm »
Guys these are just things that pop into my head.

I trade shares via Standard Bank. When dividends are payed out, it is payed out to my trading account. I then immediately buy more shares with it. The share statement will reflect that I received dividends, but in reality I did not take the money to use for day-to-day living. Must I still declare it as income for tax purposes?

Bundu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Tax
« Reply #205 on: February 09, 2014, 09:16:20 pm »
Guys these are just things that pop into my head.

I trade shares via Standard Bank. When dividends are payed out, it is payed out to my trading account. I then immediately buy more shares with it. The share statement will reflect that I received dividends, but in reality I did not take the money to use for day-to-day living. Must I still declare it as income for tax purposes?


Your divvie is taxed before it gets paid to you.

do you actually read when people answer? ::)
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Tax
« Reply #206 on: February 09, 2014, 09:32:23 pm »
ORCA, dem, that really is a mouthful! Thanks, but I'm still a bit lost.

1. In a nutshell, are you saying that as a man that works for a salary, I would deduct all costs for having the shares from my total profit,  then if the 3 year rule applies, deduct a total of R30 000 from my total remaining profit and then what ever is left, I add 33.3 % of that to my income statement for tax purposes?

2. What if my tax rate is 40% or is the most you will pay 33.3%?

3. I'm not sure if this was clearly answered - The R30 000 - If I have shares in 10 companies and sell them all in one go, after holding for 3 years, is the R30 000 on the profit per company or on all the companies profit combined?

No. You will need your Account analysis from your broker and use the amounts in the totals as they already have the costs deducted.
If you don't get this Account analysis report, then you must total all your Contract Notes "Due to you" for the year. The Due to you will already have the costs deducted.

From your total profits for the year, you can deduct R30k only. A third of this after your R30k deduction, you must add to your other income.
This is only for CGT and not applicable to trading.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Tax
« Reply #207 on: February 09, 2014, 09:40:56 pm »
Yip. Your tax on divies are already paid by SARS regulations. You can withdraw it tax free or reinvest it.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Snakepit

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Tax
« Reply #208 on: February 10, 2014, 07:08:27 am »
Aha thanks guys. Yes I knew that the divvies were taxed before I received it but thought since I did not physical receive it and moved it like when you move money from one RA to another RA the tax could be delayed.

And another question - Is there any benefit what so ever if you sell shares after retirement, after turning 60? This is your "pension" or part of your pension.

Orca, that 33.3 % you mention is it still the same percentage if you sell all your shares after turning 60 (retirement)?

Moonraker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +31/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Tax
« Reply #209 on: February 10, 2014, 12:33:37 pm »

And another question - Is there any benefit what so ever if you sell shares after retirement, after turning 60? This is your "pension" or part of your pension.
Nope.
Orca, that 33.3 % you mention is it still the same percentage if you sell all your shares after turning 60 (retirement)?
33.3% is the cgt rate applied to your gains. Your effective rate depends on your marginal tax rate eg. @ 40% marginal tax rate, you would effectively pay 13.3%. At a lower marginal rate you would pay less, eg. 9.99% @ 30% marginal tax rate.