Author Topic: Tax  (Read 100666 times)

Moneypenny

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Re: Tax
« Reply #120 on: October 08, 2013, 01:34:42 pm »
Come on guys, play nice

No vulgar language and targeting of individuals. Everyone is here to learn from each other.

+1 smiley

yossarian

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Re: Tax
« Reply #121 on: October 08, 2013, 01:59:41 pm »
Come on guys, play nice

No vulgar language and targeting of individuals. Everyone is here to learn from each other.

Did I miss something?

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #122 on: October 08, 2013, 03:06:11 pm »
Sure did mate. Two crazy guys were at each others throats and clicking "smite" buttons. Then one called the other the "T" word. It was horrible.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #123 on: October 16, 2013, 06:17:11 pm »
I said that I will post my SARS trading outcome. Just to refresh your memory;
Due to ignorance on my part, I never disclosed my trading activity to SARS since 2008. Had a Managed Account with a broker and lost R170k for the 2009 tax year.
I then did my own "investing" in CML by buying at lows and selling at highs. Did not work very well but made good gains for 2010/11/12/13.
This made me a "trader" and I never knew it. I thought if one keeps the money in the JSE without withdrawals then tax will not come into play.

Stoopid me only found out this year that it does not work that way. Recalculated all my losses and gains from 2008 and presented them to SARS. I was only owing R12K for last year if the R170K loss was carried over.
This, I disclosed out my own accord. Now today I get a letter stating:
"Notice of Invalid Objection. ( I did not object to anything)
Your objection for tax year 2009 is not valid as it was made more than three years after the original 2009 assessment. (All the tax acts are mentioned)
This assessment is now final and conclusive.
You cannot object or appeal against this decision and the only recourse available to you is to approach the High Court for review. Your 2010 to 2012 revisions will be recalculated and forwarded to you soonest ".

So my 2009 tax loss has prescribed and now I must pay over R200k tax plus interest plus fines. I hate SARS.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

gcr

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Re: Tax
« Reply #124 on: October 16, 2013, 06:27:40 pm »
Orca - empathy mate.
I too hate SARS they are incompetent and spiteful and you can't discuss anything technical with them as they hide behind the Act wherever they can
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein

Bundu

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Re: Tax
« Reply #125 on: October 16, 2013, 06:43:04 pm »
Orca - it does make one wonder if one should come clear with SARS

I take it since 2009 they never discovered your mistakes and you came forward on your own accord? or did they pull the plug on you?
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #126 on: October 16, 2013, 06:48:54 pm »
At SARS I was allocated a young fat BEEEE girl that had to keep asking others for advice as to what to do. I told my wife that there is shite coming.
She filed it as a NOO. ie. Notice of Objection. Geez. I NEVER objected to anything. I disclosed.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #127 on: October 16, 2013, 06:55:07 pm »
Orca - it does make one wonder if one should come clear with SARS

I take it since 2009 they never discovered your mistakes and you came forward on your own accord? or did they pull the plug on you?

I disclosed all. 

My tax consultant told me to not enter into an VDP as the 3 year prescription rule will apply and to just disclose all and the 5 year rule will apply. Not so it seems.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Bundu

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Re: Tax
« Reply #128 on: October 16, 2013, 07:30:08 pm »
Orca - it does make one wonder if one should come clear with SARS

I take it since 2009 they never discovered your mistakes and you came forward on your own accord? or did they pull the plug on you?

I disclosed all. 

My tax consultant told me to not enter into an VDP as the 3 year prescription rule will apply and to just disclose all and the 5 year rule will apply. Not so it seems.

why don't you simply hand the whole matter to the consultant to handle? will cost you less than dealing directly with SARS and I imagine the consultants costs can also be deducted from income
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #129 on: October 17, 2013, 05:15:51 pm »
Bundu. If you read through the Tax Administrative Act or TAA on SARS website you will realize that getting professional advice or aid will not help at all.
The TAA was signed into law and gazetted and not even the minister can bend the rules of the act. Under Section 104(5) it states that if the objection is 3 years or older then no objection can be made. SARS has no discretion in this regard nor has the tax court nor the tax ombudsman. Only the High Court can make a ruling.
So my assessment is final and conclusive.
My only advice to people in my situation is to go for the Voluntary Disclosure Programme. I have not yet read it but I would think you can negotiate with the Commissioner for a 5 year max extension.

 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 05:21:52 pm by Orca »
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

XXXXX

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Re: Tax
« Reply #130 on: October 19, 2013, 07:01:26 am »
Hi Orca,  You're correct in saying that 104(5) puts a time limit on submitting a objection.  However your potential escape  clause is provided for in section 93 of the Tax Administration act.  The relevant section makes it possible for the reduction of an assessment by SARS in the case of an undisputed error by the taxpayer.  No objection is required (so bypasses 104(5)). 

I haven't explored the relationship between section 93 and section 99 (section 99 puts a time period of the limitation of issuing new assessments). It is however worth investigating , and even if section 99 limits you, I would attempt a reduction anyway - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.  The worst is that they say "No".

I attach an extract of section 93.
Section 93
1)SARS may make a reduced assessment if—
a)the taxpayer successfully disputed the assessment under Chapter 9;
b)necessary to give effect to a settlement under section 149;
c)necessary to give effect to a judgment pursuant to an appeal under Part E of Chapter 9 and there is no right of further appeal; or
d)SARS is satisfied that there is an error in the assessment as a result of an undisputed error by—
i)SARS; or
ii)the taxpayer in a return.

 
2)SARS may reduce an assessment despite the fact that no objection has been lodged or appeal noted.[/u]

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #131 on: October 19, 2013, 07:14:59 pm »
Thanks XXXXX. I will read those sections but don't think it applies to me as I don't want a reduction. I want SARS to take my R170k tax loss for 2009 into consideration going forward.
The letter also states:
"In terms of section 99(1)(a) read with section 100(1)(b) of the TAA, the assessment is final and conclusive".

My only hope is that the new Draft bill on 5 year Prescription period for "Self Assessment" tax for Income Tax gets gazetted soon. 



I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #132 on: October 22, 2013, 02:36:39 pm »
Part 1 of my move to Portugal is done. Got a buyer for my Coffee shop today.
Now if I add this money to top up my current stocks, how will this affect the 3 year thingy?
I presume the new shares will start on this new date. Am I correct?
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Bundu

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Re: Tax
« Reply #133 on: October 22, 2013, 02:44:18 pm »
yip

sell date minus buy date must be > 3years, but if you emigrate, you could perhaps make an argument that you had to sell to liquidate your investments
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #134 on: October 22, 2013, 03:09:25 pm »
Thanks Bunbu. I don't intend selling when I leave but it does remind me about the Exit Tax. What a bummer. I will have to "deem" all my assets as "sold" on exit and pay CGT or income as in my case.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.