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Author Topic: Tax  (Read 265468 times)

jaDEB

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Re: Tax
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2013, 06:53:48 pm »
Just finished mine, pressed File ..  :TU:   ??? ??? ???
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jaDEB

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Bundu

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Re: Tax
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2013, 07:02:17 pm »
Quote from: Moonraker on July 02, 2013, 06:52:55 pm
Quote from: Patrick on July 02, 2013, 06:15:50 pm
Quote from: Moonraker on July 02, 2013, 05:29:20 pm
Yes, the collective schemes investment act means that the UT's don't pay CGT, but as a holder you need to pay CGT when you sell units applying weighted average cost.

Any idea if you'd get taxed as a trader for selling unit trusts before the 3 year period is up? My UT has recently upped the fees and I'd be much happier putting those funds into ETFs.
Oh oh, a difficult one. I have never been a UT investor, but would venture to say, seeing that all the trading is done by the UT management companies, one would not get taxed as a trader.
Anyone ?

I would think, that as you have a valid reason for selling, i.e. not taking profit, you could get by not being classed as a trader
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« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2013, 07:57:58 pm »
I was a total noob with tax and investing/trading. I was under the impression that if you realize a gain and you keep it on the JSE, it is NOT "money in the pocket" as I did not withdraw it. So no tax.
How wrong I was. Stoopid me.
Now I have to reconcile tax back to 2007. Doing a "Voluntary Disclosure" will not help as they would say that they would have picked up the error anyway at some stage. This means that I have to pay interest and fines plus the 40%.
Where is van Stadens bridge?

« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 08:04:02 pm by Orca »
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Bundu

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Re: Tax
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2013, 08:06:41 pm »
not sure I'm following you.... AFAIK, with shares, if you are a private entity, you are only liable for tax on any gains once you sell
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« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2013, 07:26:09 pm »
Quote from: Bundu on July 05, 2013, 08:06:41 pm
not sure I'm following you.... AFAIK, with shares, if you are a private entity, you are only liable for tax on any gains once you sell

That's just what I did. Sold and bought back in at every "bad news" to protect my money.  :wall:
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Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2013, 07:16:15 pm »
Just got all my ducks in a row this weekend. Printed out what I could but will give my accountant my Login details if she needs more info.
Looks bad atm as I really churned my account for 4 years. Mixed trading with investing on the same account.
We live and learn.
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Patrick

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Re: Tax
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2013, 11:00:15 am »
Quote from: Orca on July 07, 2013, 07:16:15 pm
Just got all my ducks in a row this weekend. Printed out what I could but will give my accountant my Login details if she needs more info.
Looks bad atm as I really churned my account for 4 years. Mixed trading with investing on the same account.
We live and learn.

Glad you're sharing so the rest of us can learn before we make the same mistake. My new rule of thumb is not to buy anything I'm not willing to hold for three years. And at the moment that means I'll only buy ETFs.
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Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2013, 10:51:55 am »
tgg said that he uses half of his portfolio to "play around with". That means he does not hold for the 3 year period so his whole portfolio will be seen by SARS to be trading stocks. His gains will then be added to his income or his losses will be deducted from his income.

Had he sold after 3 years, his gains will be separate from his income. He will pay CGT after the R30k exclusion on his total gain.
If he had a loss after the 3 year period, then this loss will carry over and offset from any future gains.

I don't understand how jaDEB got away with paying CGT as I know that he trades his stocks. He did it on efiling and the calculation was automated so perhaps it will be picked up at a later stage. (not sure jaDEB so don't worry).
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jaDEB

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Re: Tax
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2013, 11:24:11 am »
No Orca I is cool, no jail time for me. Had a loss last year, and this year my profit was less than R10,000. So yes, when I move in with you big boys, I will pay my dues (tax). Will then just work out my Share tax portion and sell shares to pay it.

But I read an article once, where they said so many people do not make profit (or less profit) cause they do not want to pay tax. The article indicated, why not clap it, make R100k, pay your tax and have R50k. Or sit and be scared, before you wipe u eyes out it went R100k u do not sell, then drops back. Thus u make no profit.

Simple terms, If I kept SGL, not selling it at a profit, I would have made a huge loss. We talking about my portfolio would be halved.
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jaDEB

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Moonraker

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Re: Tax
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2013, 06:53:17 pm »
Once again being audited by SARS. What really pisses me off is that after uploading supporting documents, I later realised that I forgot those relating to CGT, so logged in again, but then the upload fields are greyed out i.e. not accessible.
Whoever set up the efiling system to prevent those that, due to an oversight, omitted one or other supporting document in the initial upload from later simply being able to upload the document they previously forgot to submit, IS A MORON.


EDIT. I think that if one is not a member of a medical aid scheme (like me), and claims for expenses one will always be audited. Same would probably apply if one has made a donation to a PBO (like me).
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 10:53:28 am by Moonraker »
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Moonraker

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Re: Tax
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2013, 04:16:16 pm »
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jaDEB

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Re: Tax
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2013, 06:04:58 pm »
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jaDEB

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Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2013, 06:19:16 pm »
 :wtf: Don't understand nix. Nothing there is for traders.  :frustrated:
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Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2013, 06:37:13 pm »
Off to see my tax accountant tomorrow. She says that the "Voluntary Disclosure" might not help as they would have picked it up sooner or later.
VD only helps for certain businesses that can easily hide income from SARS. Churning your JSE stocks WILL get picked up eventually.
So now it is fines, penalties and interest. Plus everything is added to my income. :wall:
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gcr

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Re: Tax
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2013, 06:54:47 pm »
Quote from: Orca on July 15, 2013, 06:37:13 pm
Off to see my tax accountant tomorrow. She says that the "Voluntary Disclosure" might not help as they would have picked it up sooner or later.
VD only helps for certain businesses that can easily hide income from SARS. Churning your JSE stocks WILL get picked up eventually.
So now it is fines, penalties and interest. Plus everything is added to my income. :wall:
Orca - I don't know whether it will help, but, maybe you need to argue with SARS on the basis that your intent has always been to obtain growth to lessen the likelihood of you making a claim to the state for financial support and also to be self supporting. Further you have a financial responsibility to yourself to protect yourself from market crashes and what transpired in 2007/8 was the second most severe market correction since the depression of 1929/30. Simple fixed investments are for short period of time and yet there is no CGT for not holding a fixed deposit for longer than 3 years so why is SARS targeting investors in the share market with tax on turnover of shares, CGT, and withholding tax - they are being grossly avarice towards a segment of the investing public and they only share in the growth of shares and give back nothing when a tax payer incurs substantial losses. They are not dealing with investors in a very even handed manner at all
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