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Author Topic: Tax  (Read 265530 times)

Bundu

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Re: Tax
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2013, 07:17:29 pm »
that email is genuine Orca

If it affected me, I would however still calculate my own tax and if SARS owes me, I would still submit a return
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« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Bundu

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Re: Tax.
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2013, 07:25:55 pm »
Quote from: tgg78703 on June 25, 2013, 07:44:14 pm
We don,t loose 20 or 13 %, that is our part to finance the powers that be  :'(

I am comfortable being a trader and follow the various market segments, If I was an investor, i would put my my money in a fund, either unit trust or maybe satrix ind. and just sit back and relax.

But the share market is my hobby, like riding bike is to some people

the other point one can make, is that if you are against the trader option, you only have "new Money" available for opportunities that might crop up

.... and some of us have trading AND bikes as our hobbies ;) 8)
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« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2013, 07:43:51 pm »
That email stated that if I earn less than R250k then I need not submit a return. The threshold is R63556.00 !!!
I don't understand and I'm only on my 2'nd beer.
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Bundu

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Re: Tax
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2013, 07:49:12 pm »
don't confuse not having to pay tax and not having to submit a return
it simply means that SARS feels your employer has probably deducted enough tax already and they would rather focus on the higher earners
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« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 06:13:55 PM by Bundu »

Moonraker

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Re: Tax
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2013, 08:27:04 pm »
Quote from: Orca on July 01, 2013, 07:43:51 pm
That email stated that if I earn less than R250k then I need not submit a return. The threshold is R63556.00 !!!
I don't understand and I'm only on my 2'nd beer.
No such luck Orca,
Quote
Piet Nel, project director for tax at the South African Institute of Chartered Accountants (Saica), explains that these requirements include that an individual may only earn salary income from one employer. In principle they would only have one IRP5 (a tax certificate from his or her employer), he says.

Additionally, the person may not earn other taxable interest or rental income and is also not entitled to any tax allowances for medical contributions, retirement annuities or business travel expenses.

The government Gazette confirmed that individuals who do earn interest, but would be exempt from paying tax on it because the tax is less than the annual interest tax exemptions (R22 800 for individuals under 65 and R33 000 for persons 65 years and older), would not need to submit a return based on this income alone, he says.

(Gird your loins and grease your skids, tax season is upon us)   :wall:
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jaDEB

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Re: Tax
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2013, 08:49:35 am »
I was audited last year, expect it again this year.  :wall:  :wtf: ???

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gcr

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Re: Tax
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2013, 09:38:43 am »
You need to be careful regarding the above - this ruling relates to employees and only one employer. If you are a provisional tax payer (if you receive a pension then you are automatically a provisional taxpayer) then this ruling doesn't apply. I have been trying to get Manual/Gordhan to change the way pensions are treated - invariably one normally receives a pension from one pension fund so why the difference in treatment of the employee/pensioner. SARS I am afraid are quite useless and extremely unfair in the way pensioners are treated - if you have some wealth they tax you more viciously than any other tax paying segment. If one looks at the range of taxes you pay it is quite daunting and does nothing encourage people to save in any shape or form, and don't be late or neglect to include any portion of your wealth as the penalties are quite steep.
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Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 02:38:03 pm »
Another tax question.
If you have your account managed by a brokerage firm in their Managed Portfolio Account such as Imara SP Reid has, and they often swop stocks then you are considered a trader. Losses and gains must be added to your other income.

If you have Unit Trusts that you keep for 10 years and although the stocks within the UT's are also sold and replaced from time to time, you will not be liable for tax until you sell the UT.
Am I correct?
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gcr

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Re: Tax
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2013, 04:20:54 pm »
Quote from: Orca on July 02, 2013, 02:38:03 pm
Another tax question.
If you have your account managed by a brokerage firm in their Managed Portfolio Account such as Imara SP Reid has, and they often swop stocks then you are considered a trader. Losses and gains must be added to your other income.

If you have Unit Trusts that you keep for 10 years and although the stocks within the UT's are also sold and replaced from time to time, you will not be liable for tax until you sell the UT.
Am I correct?
I spoke to Simon Brown regarding SARS treatment of an individual who has an investment account with a broker and a trading account with the same broker, he assures me that SARS will treat the activity and the intent on these two accounts separately - so in one sense you are treated as an investor and separately on the trading account you will be assessed as a trader. I did not have long enough to raise all the question I still have but he did say that my broker should be well versed in these matters as they are in fact offering these options to other clients. On the other point, when you complete your e filing SARS return you only need to give base costs and proceeds - there is no room for listing how you arrived at these figures, and the system determines the amount you will be assessed for CGT - however if you have an accumulated loss then this is deducted before CGT is calculated. One of the problems I have is that many of the calculations are hidden to the taxpayer so you never know whether you are being ripped off or not. I have just sold some U/T's because they are not performing and these I have held since the '90's and now in terms of CGT SARS will score exceptionally on an item which wasn't even subject to CGT in the '90's - what they should do is allow you to use the price of the U/T at time of introduction of CGT - but this is unlikely to happen when dealing with an overzealous collector of taxes     
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jaDEB

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Re: Tax
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2013, 04:48:41 pm »
Quote from: gcr on July 02, 2013, 04:20:54 pm
Quote from: Orca on July 02, 2013, 02:38:03 pm
Another tax question.
If you have your account managed by a brokerage firm in their Managed Portfolio Account such as Imara SP Reid has, and they often swop stocks then you are considered a trader. Losses and gains must be added to your other income.

If you have Unit Trusts that you keep for 10 years and although the stocks within the UT's are also sold and replaced from time to time, you will not be liable for tax until you sell the UT.
Am I correct?
I spoke to Simon Brown regarding SARS treatment of an individual who has an investment account with a broker and a trading account with the same broker, he assures me that SARS will treat the activity and the intent on these two accounts separately - so in one sense you are treated as an investor and separately on the trading account you will be assessed as a trader. I did not have long enough to raise all the question I still have but he did say that my broker should be well versed in these matters as they are in fact offering these options to other clients. On the other point, when you complete your e filing SARS return you only need to give base costs and proceeds - there is no room for listing how you arrived at these figures, and the system determines the amount you will be assessed for CGT - however if you have an accumulated loss then this is deducted before CGT is calculated. One of the problems I have is that many of the calculations are hidden to the taxpayer so you never know whether you are being ripped off or not. I have just sold some U/T's because they are not performing and these I have held since the '90's and now in terms of CGT SARS will score exceptionally on an item which wasn't even subject to CGT in the '90's - what they should do is allow you to use the price of the U/T at time of introduction of CGT - but this is unlikely to happen when dealing with an overzealous collector of taxes     

there is no room for listing how you arrived at these figures, and the system determines the amount you will be assessed for CGT -

Is correct, but you need to keep record. I was audited last year and had to submit my records.
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jaDEB

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Moonraker

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Re: Tax
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2013, 04:50:27 pm »
Quote from: gcr on July 02, 2013, 04:20:54 pm

what they should do is allow you to use the price of the U/T at time of introduction of CGT - but this is unlikely to happen when dealing with an overzealous collector of taxes     
But they do !
3. How were unit trust investments valued on 1 October 2001?
The market values of units in domestic unit trusts on 1 October 2001 are available on this website and were also published in Government Gazette23037 of 25 January 2002. These values were based on the average of the closing prices at which units could be sold to the management companies (usually the "sell" price quoted in most newspapers) for the last five trading days before valuation date. This valuation excludes initial costs.

http://www.sars.gov.za/TaxTypes/CGT/Pages/CGT-Value-of-Assets-on-1-October-2001-(Unit-trust-prices).aspx
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 05:24:19 pm by Moonraker »
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Orca

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Re: Tax
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2013, 05:07:49 pm »
I have read that you will pay the tax rate at the time you sold and not at today's rate.
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Moonraker

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Re: Tax
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2013, 05:29:20 pm »
Quote from: Orca on July 02, 2013, 02:38:03 pm

If you have Unit Trusts that you keep for 10 years and although the stocks within the UT's are also sold and replaced from time to time, you will not be liable for tax until you sell the UT.
Am I correct?
Yes, the collective schemes act means that the UT's don't pay CGT, but as a holder you need to pay CGT when you sell units applying weighted average cost.
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Patrick

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Re: Tax
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2013, 06:15:50 pm »
Quote from: Moonraker on July 02, 2013, 05:29:20 pm
Yes, the collective schemes act means that the UT's don't pay CGT, but as a holder you need to pay CGT when you sell units applying weighted average cost.

Any idea if you'd get taxed as a trader for selling unit trusts before the 3 year period is up? My UT has recently upped the fees and I'd be much happier putting those funds into ETFs.
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Moonraker

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Re: Tax
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2013, 06:52:55 pm »
Quote from: Patrick on July 02, 2013, 06:15:50 pm
Quote from: Moonraker on July 02, 2013, 05:29:20 pm
Yes, the collective schemes investment act means that the UT's don't pay CGT, but as a holder you need to pay CGT when you sell units applying weighted average cost.

Any idea if you'd get taxed as a trader for selling unit trusts before the 3 year period is up? My UT has recently upped the fees and I'd be much happier putting those funds into ETFs.
Oh oh, a difficult one. I have never been a UT investor, but would venture to say, seeing that all the trading is done by the UT management companies, one would not get taxed as a trader.
Anyone ?
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