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Quote from: Orca on December 16, 2015, 08:47:45 pm

The VWRD has averaged a mere 10% pa.

True, but it is 10% in Dollar terms, which means it's a lot more in Rand terms.

And also less at the mercy of Zuma and Malema.

It's actually done way better than that, in rand terms it's done 200% in 5 years if you include divvies. I think your calculation didn't take into account the fact that the dollar strengthening against the rand also compounds. A better way to compare would be to compare both funds in Rand. The closest to that would be to compare STXIND and DBXWD over a 5 year period:

As you can see, DBXWD wins, most likely because the rand is a big loser. VWRD should have the same performace as DBXWD, but pay 0.43% more in dividends. VWRD pays about 2% per year after taxes, while STXIND pays 1.4% before taxes, so about 1.2% after. That means that even though VWRD has outperformed, it would also have paid about 0.8% a year more in dividends.

Plus of course, VWRD is VERY diversified, 6000+ companies, so a far lower risk than STXIND which has just 25 companies, but a huge 40%+ in two companies, SAB and NPN. With VWRD the biggest holding I believe is apple at 1.8%.

I've done a lot of research into the best play for a non-US resident to put their money, and the bight sparks at bogleheads suggest VWRD almost without fail. I'm going to transition all my holdings into it as soon as I can without incurring a huge amount of fees and taxes.

Edit, just thought I'd try a $ denominated graph. Here's VWRD compared to the iShares MSCI South Africa ETF, basically the SA all share index over the last 4 years (VWRD is only 4 years old):

How miserable does that make you, that in $ terms, the JSE has lost 20% over the last 4 years.

One more graph comparing VT, the world index US citizens can buy (lowest cost but foreigners mustn't buy it) to the JSE all share, all available data:

Here you can see that during the commodities boom, from 2009 to 2013, South Africa outperformed the world by a fairly long way. But in 2013 that ended, anyone want to place money on SA outperforming the world in dollar terms again anytime soon?

@Patrick

In your post above you say: "One more graph comparing VT, the world index US citizens can buy (lowest cost but foreigners mustn't buy it)"

Why do you say foreigners mustn't buy VT? Are you referring to the estate tax implications?
(If you have a GlobeTax agreement in place, will VTI+VEU not give you an overall lower expense ratio?)

Also, how will you be buying your VWRD? (From a USD based account with Standard Bank WebTrader or Absa World Trader?)

Some links I have been reading:
https://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Some-Nonresidents-with-U.S.-Assets-Must-File-Estate-Tax-Returns
http://www.turtleinvestor.net/faq-vanguard-ftse-world-ucits-etf-vwrd/
http://www.turtleinvestor.net/establishing-bogleheads-3-fund-portfolio-singapore/

Thanks Patrick, I will be interested to hear what you think about https://exchange4free.co.za/.

I have done a few transfers and got better rates than through my bank. If you do R100k+ you don't pay any fees. They also cover the fees on the receiving end.

Does it not become easier to hold your offshore shares in a trust rather than limiting yourself to non-us or Irish domiciled shares?

Think carefully before you just pile into VWRD. It has had zero returns over a 2 year period. Actually it was negative in USD terms and the gains you get is merely the exchange rate of the USD/ZAR.

The selloff of the ZAR was overdone so there is little prospects of it continuing to do so over time or even the near future. It may even correct.

The normal decline of the ZAR may persist at 2,5% pa and if the VWRD carries on with it's spectacular gains of next to nothing then that is all you will get. A mere 2,5% pa.

If your actions are politically motivated, then go ahead.

Latest STXIND rebalancing :

Interesting to see the retail groups being added?

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mny_sens/satrix-collective-investment-scheme-rebalancing-of-the-satrix-indi-portfolio-stxind-7/

STXIND 201601120019A

Rebalancing of the Satrix Indi Portfolio –  STXIND


SATRIX COLLECTIVE INVESTMENT SCHEME

SATRIX INDI PORTFOLIO

JSE code: STXIND

ISIN code: ZAE000036364

(‘Satrix Indi’ or the “ETF”)


A portfolio in the Satrix Collective Investment Scheme, registered

as such in terms of the Collective Investment Schemes Control Act,

45 of 2002


REBALANCING OF THE SATRIX INDI PORTFOLIO


Notice is hereby given that the quarterly review of the FTSE/JSE Indi Index

has resulted in a rebalancing of the Satrix Indi ETF Portfolio.


There have been changes to the Satrix Indi constituents,and the

constituent weightings.


The complete list of current constituents and their respective weightings

have been included in the table below:


                                                           Previous         New

Code         Share                                          weight        weight

     APN    Aspen Pharmacare Holdings Ltd                    2.39%      2.48%

     BTI    British American Tobacco plc                     5.60%      6.36%

     BVT    The Bidvest Group Ltd                            2.57%      2.67%

     CFR    Compagnie Financičre Richemont SA               13.28%     13.74%

     DST    Distell Group Ltd                                0.19%      0.18%

     IPL    Imperial Holdings Ltd                            0.71%      0.51%

     LHC    Life Healthcare Group Holdings Ltd               0.91%      0.87%

     MDC    Mediclinic International Ltd                     1.31%      1.47%

     MRP    Mr Price Group Ltd                               0.00%      1.15%

     MND    Mondi Ltd                                        0.85%      0.00%

     MNP    Mondi plc                                        2.63%      0.00%

     MPC    Mr Price Group Ltd                               1.20%      0.00%

     MTN    MTN Group Ltd                                    7.93%      6.14%

     NPN    Naspers Ltd                                     17.77%     22.67%

     NTC    Netcare Ltd                                      1.35%      1.26%

     PFG    Pioneer Food Group Ltd                           0.64%      0.52%

     PIK    Pick n Pay Stores Ltd                            0.00%      0.37%

     REM    Remgro Ltd                                       2.99%      3.03%

     SAB    SABMiller plc                                   18.39%     22.27%

     SHF    Steinhoff International Holdings                 5.02%      0.00%

     SHP    Shoprite Holdings Ltd                            1.73%      1.56%

     SNH    Steinhoff International Holdings N.V.            0.00%      4.98%

     SPP    The SPAR Group Ltd                               0.00%      0.81%

     SOL    Sasol Ltd                                        5.72%      0.00%

     TBS    Tiger Brands Ltd                                 1.21%      1.29%

     TFG    The Foschini Group Ltd                           0.74%      0.60%

     TKG    Telkom SA SOC Ltd                                0.52%      0.51%

     TRU    Truworths International Ltd                      0.95%      0.99%

     VOD    Vodacom Group Ltd                                1.15%      1.24%

     WHL    Woolworths Holdings Ltd                          2.25%      2.35%

                                                              100%       100%


The following constituents have been added to the Satrix Indi:


                                                      Previous        New

Code         Share                                     weight        weight

MRP           Mr Price Group Ltd                         0.00%          1.15%

PIK           Pick n Pay Stores Ltd                      0.00%          0.37%

SNH           Steinhoff International Holdings N.V.      0.00%          4.98%

SPP           The SPAR Group Ltd                         0.00%          0.81%


The following constituents have been removed from the Satrix Indi:


                                                      Previous         New

Code         Share                                     weight        weight

MND           Mondi Ltd                                 0.85%          0.00%

MNP           Mondi plc                                 2.63%          0.00%

MPC           Mr Price Group Ltd                        1.20%          0.00%

SHF           Steinhoff International Holdings          5.02%          0.00%

SOL           Sasol Ltd                                 5.72%          0.00%


These changes were applied after the close of business on 18 December 2015

and are effective from 21 December 2015.

Anybody know when DIVTRX is paying out again?

Saw a sens on twitter yesterday. Let me find one quick.

Here it is: http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mny_sens/coreshares-index-tracker-managers-rf-proprietary-limited-distribution-finalisation-announcement-divtrx-3/

+- 16 cents