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Author Topic: RMB MidCap ETF  (Read 26992 times)

Patrick

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RMB MidCap ETF
« on: September 09, 2013, 03:32:14 pm »
Lets hear some thoughts on this one...

For starters, it's basically the next biggest 60 companies after the top 40, these are:
Share    Name    Quantity
ABL    AFRICAN BANK INVESTMENTS LTD    5057
ACL    ARCELORMITTAL SOUTH AFRICA LTD    1201
ACP    ACUCAP PROPERTIES LTD    1185
AEG    AVENG LTD    2918
AFE    AECI LTD    874
AFX    AFRICAN OXYGEN LTD    1027
AIP    ADCOCK INGRAM HOLDINGS LTD    1109
ATN    ALLIED ELECTRONICS CORP LTD    316
ATNP    ALLIED ELECTRONICS CORP LTD    1548
AVI    AVI LTD    2292
BAT    BRAIT SA    2409
BAW    BARLOWORLD LTD    1570
CCO    CAPITAL & COUNTIES PROPERTIES PLC    1691
CLS    CLICKS GROUP LTD    1888
CML    CORONATION FUND MANAGERS LTD    2095
CPI    CAPITEC BANK HOLDINGS LTD    454
CPL    CAPITAL PROPERTY FUND    9985
DTC    DATATEC LTD    1348
EMI    EMIRA PROPERTY FUND    3262
FPT    FOUNTAINHEAD PROPERTY TRUST    4787
GND    GRINDROD LTD    2716
HAR    HARMONY GOLD MINING CO LTD    2802
HCI    HOSKEN CONSOLIDATED INVESTMENTS LTD    419
HYP    HYPROP INVESTMENTS LTD    1565
ILV    ILLOVO SUGAR LTD    1708
JDG    JD GROUP LTD/SOUTH AFRICA    858
KAP    KAP INDUSTRIAL HOLDINGS LTD    6824
LBH    LIBERTY HOLDINGS LTD    771
LEW    LEWIS GROUP LTD    661
LHC    LIFE HEALTHCARE GROUP HOLDINGS    6866
LON    LONMIN PLC    3221
MMI    MMI HOLDINGS LTD/SOUTH AFRICA    7640
MPC    MR PRICE GROUP LTD    1716
MUR    MURRAY & ROBERTS HOLDINGS LTD    3063
NEP    NEW EUROPE PROP INV PL    620
NHM    NORTHAM PLATINUM LTD    1966
NPK    NAMPAK LTD    4414
NTC    NETCARE LTD    10904
OCE    OCEANA GROUP LTD    266
OMN    OMNIA HOLDINGS LTD    423
PFG    PIONEER FOODS LTD    964
PIK    PIK N PAY STORES LTD    1654
PPC    PPC LTD    3399
RBP    ROYAL BAFOKENG PLATINUM LTD    370
RBW    RAINBOW CHICKEN LTD    1119
RDF    REDEFINE PROPERTIES LTD    21537
REI    REINET INVESTMENTS SCA    14669
RES    RESILIENT PROPERTY INCOME FUND LTD    1712
RLO    REUNERT LTD    1226
RMI    RMB HOLDINGS    5227
SAC    SA CORPORATE REAL ESTATE FUND NOMINEES P    13489
SAP    SAPPI LTD    4021
SNT    SANTAM LTD    257
SPP    SPAR GROUP LTD/THE    1290
SUI    SUN INTERNATIONAL LTD/SOUTH AFRICA    692
TFG    THE FOSCHINI GROUP LTD    1368
TKG    TELKOM SA SOC LTD    2320
TON    TONGAAT HULETT LTD    552
TRE    TRENCOR LTD    1245
VKE    VUKILE PROPERTY FUND LTD    3380
WBO    WILSON BAYLY HOLMES-OVCON LTD    0

It's new, so I couldn't chart it directly, but if we compare indexes we can go back about 10 years. In the attachments I've put the midcap vs the indi (not the satrix indi, but the industrial index which the satrix indi is based on) over 10 years, and 5 years, and the midcap vs the top40 over 10 years.

Clearly it beats the top40, but the interesting thing is how close it is to the indi. In fact, a lot of the time it beats the indi in the 10 year graph, and in the 5 year apart from the period between July 2012 where the indi took off.

I like the list of companies, and the fact that it's more diversified than the Satrix INDI so I'm thinking of adding some of these to my portfolio.

Your thoughts?
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Orca

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2013, 05:46:46 pm »
Charts look good for 50/50 mix of the 2. I would not go for RMBMIDCAP though as it only had 8 trades today. I would go through that list checking charts and fundamentals then choose the best 10. I'm sure that way you will beat both the STXIND and RMB mid caps.

Also good reading http://www.sharenet.co.za/marketviews/mv_view_article.php?id=1771
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 06:10:35 pm by Orca »
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Moneypenny

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 09:16:31 am »
Wow, that's a mouth full, need time to sort out first, will get back.
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Patrick

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2013, 09:26:30 am »
Quote from: Orca on September 09, 2013, 05:46:46 pm
Charts look good for 50/50 mix of the 2. I would not go for RMBMIDCAP though as it only had 8 trades today. I would go through that list checking charts and fundamentals then choose the best 10. I'm sure that way you will beat both the STXIND and RMB mid caps.

Also good reading http://www.sharenet.co.za/marketviews/mv_view_article.php?id=1771

I can't pick shares so I'll just buy the index. The fact that it only had 8 trades isn't too important for an ETF. As with the other ETFs there is always a buy and a sell with a small spread. In this case the bid is 559 and the offer is 566, so a 7c spread. These bids and offers are managed by the ETF company, so the share is always liquid. You can buy as many as you like at 566, and sell as many as you like at 559, the ETF company will just keep taking or selling. If you're lucky someone will be selling some somewhere between that spread and you'll score a few cents. Happens fairly often with the indi, but that's pretty well traded.

jaDEB my email said you posted here but I don't see anything?
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jaDEB

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 09:45:56 am »
Yes I did reply then deleted, cause I got it all wrong.
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Orca

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2013, 05:43:18 pm »
Quote from: Patrick on September 10, 2013, 09:26:30 am
Quote from: Orca on September 09, 2013, 05:46:46 pm
Charts look good for 50/50 mix of the 2. I would not go for RMBMIDCAP though as it only had 8 trades today. I would go through that list checking charts and fundamentals then choose the best 10. I'm sure that way you will beat both the STXIND and RMB mid caps.

Also good reading http://www.sharenet.co.za/marketviews/mv_view_article.php?id=1771

I can't pick shares so I'll just buy the index. The fact that it only had 8 trades isn't too important for an ETF. As with the other ETFs there is always a buy and a sell with a small spread. In this case the bid is 559 and the offer is 566, so a 7c spread. These bids and offers are managed by the ETF company, so the share is always liquid. You can buy as many as you like at 566, and sell as many as you like at 559, the ETF company will just keep taking or selling. If you're lucky someone will be selling some somewhere between that spread and you'll score a few cents. Happens fairly often with the indi, but that's pretty well traded.

jaDEB my email said you posted here but I don't see anything?
Thanks. I never knew that. My time with share picking is coming to an end soon. Takes up too much time and I want to pursue other interests without having to watch each share. So I would agree with 50/50 in the indexes. Only prob I see now is that the Top40 is catching up to the Indi. Will have to watch that for awhile.
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Orca

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 02:39:34 pm »
So the 10y chart shows the Mid beating the Indi. The 5y chart shows the Indi beating the Mid. So long term, the Indi is catching up to the Mid.
Something I don't quite get is how the index funds manage to replicate the index. Do the ETF index managers buy and sell their own shares to keep the gains/losses the same as the index?
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franz

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 03:36:12 pm »
Indi25
Satrix INDI endeavours to replicate the performance of the FTSE/JSE Industrial 25 index. This index comprises the top 25 industrial companies listed on the JSE.

Satrix INDI accurately replicates the FTSE/JSE INDI 25 index, by holding the shares in this index in exactly the weighted and number they constitute the index. Dividends paid by the underlying companies, less expenses incurred by managing the portfolio, are paid out to Satrix INDI shareholders on a quarterly basis.

Orca, I think they use the weighted average of each security they hold in the indi portfolio, if you look in the indi share basket you notice weekly percentage changes of some stocks, example SAB was there largest holding of 24% of the portfolio about 4 months ago and present holding is around 19%.
If a stock is in a up trend they increase there weighting.

That's the way I see it done but I could be wrong  ;D 
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Orca

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2013, 10:23:24 am »
I would think that the weighting changes with the stock performance. For example, I started with 50% CML, 25% PNC and 25% MTA. It changed to 80% CML without me having done anything.
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Patrick

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 05:45:36 pm »
I've added the midcap to the competition. It seems to have been lagging the top40 and the indi by a long way over the past 6 months, all time it beats it as you can see above, and also in many year to year comparisons.. Interestingly if there was a small cap etf (there isn't locally) it would be by far the best. Here's a graph of the small cap index compared to the indi. Much more volatile though obviously.
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Patrick

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2013, 10:39:20 am »
Have to add a downside to this ETF. As the value is so low, +-R5.60, the 7c spread means you pay a 3.5c premium per share. That's a percentage of 0.625%. Quite high if you compare it to the satrix indi which has a 12c spread ie. premium of 6c for a R50 share. That works out to 0.12%, significantly lower.

The dividend of the midcap seems to make up for that though, it's sitting at about 2.4% compared to 1.4% for the indi.

Food for thought.
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yossarian

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2013, 10:13:06 pm »
Code: [Select]
Management fees for RMB Mid Cap ETF       
First R20,000,000                0.50%
Each Subsequent Rand over R20,000,000        0.20%
They're up to about 100m at the moment.  No TER or financials as it's too new...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 10:15:26 pm by yossarian »
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Moneypenny

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2013, 09:05:18 am »
Quote from: Moneypenny on September 10, 2013, 09:16:31 am
Wow, that's a mouth full, need time to sort out first, will get back.

Um, I forgot about this. :o
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MoneyChief

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2016, 09:10:59 am »
Quote from: Patrick on September 13, 2013, 10:39:20 am
Have to add a downside to this ETF. As the value is so low, +-R5.60, the 7c spread means you pay a 3.5c premium per share. That's a percentage of 0.625%. Quite high if you compare it to the satrix indi which has a 12c spread ie. premium of 6c for a R50 share. That works out to 0.12%, significantly lower.

The dividend of the midcap seems to make up for that though, it's sitting at about 2.4% compared to 1.4% for the indi.

Food for thought.

The spread for this (ASHMID) is sitting at 60c this morning with a last traded price of 743, that's a 8% spread.  :wall:
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Fawkes85

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Re: RMB MidCap ETF
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2016, 07:57:12 pm »
One thing to note, as Simon from Just One Lap realised in one of his podcasts a few months ago, when one of the big Top40 companies start going down and continue its fall into the MidCap index, it drags the whole index down because the smaller companies that make up the MidCap index are too small to negate the negative impact of a larger, previously Top40 company going to hell.
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