The JSE and finance forum for South Africa
General Category => Shares => Topic started by: Patrick on September 09, 2013, 03:32:14 pm
-
Lets hear some thoughts on this one...
For starters, it's basically the next biggest 60 companies after the top 40, these are:
Share Name Quantity
ABL AFRICAN BANK INVESTMENTS LTD 5057
ACL ARCELORMITTAL SOUTH AFRICA LTD 1201
ACP ACUCAP PROPERTIES LTD 1185
AEG AVENG LTD 2918
AFE AECI LTD 874
AFX AFRICAN OXYGEN LTD 1027
AIP ADCOCK INGRAM HOLDINGS LTD 1109
ATN ALLIED ELECTRONICS CORP LTD 316
ATNP ALLIED ELECTRONICS CORP LTD 1548
AVI AVI LTD 2292
BAT BRAIT SA 2409
BAW BARLOWORLD LTD 1570
CCO CAPITAL & COUNTIES PROPERTIES PLC 1691
CLS CLICKS GROUP LTD 1888
CML CORONATION FUND MANAGERS LTD 2095
CPI CAPITEC BANK HOLDINGS LTD 454
CPL CAPITAL PROPERTY FUND 9985
DTC DATATEC LTD 1348
EMI EMIRA PROPERTY FUND 3262
FPT FOUNTAINHEAD PROPERTY TRUST 4787
GND GRINDROD LTD 2716
HAR HARMONY GOLD MINING CO LTD 2802
HCI HOSKEN CONSOLIDATED INVESTMENTS LTD 419
HYP HYPROP INVESTMENTS LTD 1565
ILV ILLOVO SUGAR LTD 1708
JDG JD GROUP LTD/SOUTH AFRICA 858
KAP KAP INDUSTRIAL HOLDINGS LTD 6824
LBH LIBERTY HOLDINGS LTD 771
LEW LEWIS GROUP LTD 661
LHC LIFE HEALTHCARE GROUP HOLDINGS 6866
LON LONMIN PLC 3221
MMI MMI HOLDINGS LTD/SOUTH AFRICA 7640
MPC MR PRICE GROUP LTD 1716
MUR MURRAY & ROBERTS HOLDINGS LTD 3063
NEP NEW EUROPE PROP INV PL 620
NHM NORTHAM PLATINUM LTD 1966
NPK NAMPAK LTD 4414
NTC NETCARE LTD 10904
OCE OCEANA GROUP LTD 266
OMN OMNIA HOLDINGS LTD 423
PFG PIONEER FOODS LTD 964
PIK PIK N PAY STORES LTD 1654
PPC PPC LTD 3399
RBP ROYAL BAFOKENG PLATINUM LTD 370
RBW RAINBOW CHICKEN LTD 1119
RDF REDEFINE PROPERTIES LTD 21537
REI REINET INVESTMENTS SCA 14669
RES RESILIENT PROPERTY INCOME FUND LTD 1712
RLO REUNERT LTD 1226
RMI RMB HOLDINGS 5227
SAC SA CORPORATE REAL ESTATE FUND NOMINEES P 13489
SAP SAPPI LTD 4021
SNT SANTAM LTD 257
SPP SPAR GROUP LTD/THE 1290
SUI SUN INTERNATIONAL LTD/SOUTH AFRICA 692
TFG THE FOSCHINI GROUP LTD 1368
TKG TELKOM SA SOC LTD 2320
TON TONGAAT HULETT LTD 552
TRE TRENCOR LTD 1245
VKE VUKILE PROPERTY FUND LTD 3380
WBO WILSON BAYLY HOLMES-OVCON LTD 0
It's new, so I couldn't chart it directly, but if we compare indexes we can go back about 10 years. In the attachments I've put the midcap vs the indi (not the satrix indi, but the industrial index which the satrix indi is based on) over 10 years, and 5 years, and the midcap vs the top40 over 10 years.
Clearly it beats the top40, but the interesting thing is how close it is to the indi. In fact, a lot of the time it beats the indi in the 10 year graph, and in the 5 year apart from the period between July 2012 where the indi took off.
I like the list of companies, and the fact that it's more diversified than the Satrix INDI so I'm thinking of adding some of these to my portfolio.
Your thoughts?
-
Charts look good for 50/50 mix of the 2. I would not go for RMBMIDCAP though as it only had 8 trades today. I would go through that list checking charts and fundamentals then choose the best 10. I'm sure that way you will beat both the STXIND and RMB mid caps.
Also good reading http://www.sharenet.co.za/marketviews/mv_view_article.php?id=1771
-
Wow, that's a mouth full, need time to sort out first, will get back.
-
Charts look good for 50/50 mix of the 2. I would not go for RMBMIDCAP though as it only had 8 trades today. I would go through that list checking charts and fundamentals then choose the best 10. I'm sure that way you will beat both the STXIND and RMB mid caps.
Also good reading http://www.sharenet.co.za/marketviews/mv_view_article.php?id=1771
I can't pick shares so I'll just buy the index. The fact that it only had 8 trades isn't too important for an ETF. As with the other ETFs there is always a buy and a sell with a small spread. In this case the bid is 559 and the offer is 566, so a 7c spread. These bids and offers are managed by the ETF company, so the share is always liquid. You can buy as many as you like at 566, and sell as many as you like at 559, the ETF company will just keep taking or selling. If you're lucky someone will be selling some somewhere between that spread and you'll score a few cents. Happens fairly often with the indi, but that's pretty well traded.
jaDEB my email said you posted here but I don't see anything?
-
Yes I did reply then deleted, cause I got it all wrong.
-
Charts look good for 50/50 mix of the 2. I would not go for RMBMIDCAP though as it only had 8 trades today. I would go through that list checking charts and fundamentals then choose the best 10. I'm sure that way you will beat both the STXIND and RMB mid caps.
Also good reading http://www.sharenet.co.za/marketviews/mv_view_article.php?id=1771
I can't pick shares so I'll just buy the index. The fact that it only had 8 trades isn't too important for an ETF. As with the other ETFs there is always a buy and a sell with a small spread. In this case the bid is 559 and the offer is 566, so a 7c spread. These bids and offers are managed by the ETF company, so the share is always liquid. You can buy as many as you like at 566, and sell as many as you like at 559, the ETF company will just keep taking or selling. If you're lucky someone will be selling some somewhere between that spread and you'll score a few cents. Happens fairly often with the indi, but that's pretty well traded.
jaDEB my email said you posted here but I don't see anything?
Thanks. I never knew that. My time with share picking is coming to an end soon. Takes up too much time and I want to pursue other interests without having to watch each share. So I would agree with 50/50 in the indexes. Only prob I see now is that the Top40 is catching up to the Indi. Will have to watch that for awhile.
-
So the 10y chart shows the Mid beating the Indi. The 5y chart shows the Indi beating the Mid. So long term, the Indi is catching up to the Mid.
Something I don't quite get is how the index funds manage to replicate the index. Do the ETF index managers buy and sell their own shares to keep the gains/losses the same as the index?
-
Indi25
Satrix INDI endeavours to replicate the performance of the FTSE/JSE Industrial 25 index. This index comprises the top 25 industrial companies listed on the JSE.
Satrix INDI accurately replicates the FTSE/JSE INDI 25 index, by holding the shares in this index in exactly the weighted and number they constitute the index. Dividends paid by the underlying companies, less expenses incurred by managing the portfolio, are paid out to Satrix INDI shareholders on a quarterly basis.
Orca, I think they use the weighted average of each security they hold in the indi portfolio, if you look in the indi share basket you notice weekly percentage changes of some stocks, example SAB was there largest holding of 24% of the portfolio about 4 months ago and present holding is around 19%.
If a stock is in a up trend they increase there weighting.
That's the way I see it done but I could be wrong ;D
-
I would think that the weighting changes with the stock performance. For example, I started with 50% CML, 25% PNC and 25% MTA. It changed to 80% CML without me having done anything.
-
I've added the midcap to the competition. It seems to have been lagging the top40 and the indi by a long way over the past 6 months, all time it beats it as you can see above, and also in many year to year comparisons.. Interestingly if there was a small cap etf (there isn't locally) it would be by far the best. Here's a graph of the small cap index compared to the indi. Much more volatile though obviously.
-
Have to add a downside to this ETF. As the value is so low, +-R5.60, the 7c spread means you pay a 3.5c premium per share. That's a percentage of 0.625%. Quite high if you compare it to the satrix indi which has a 12c spread ie. premium of 6c for a R50 share. That works out to 0.12%, significantly lower.
The dividend of the midcap seems to make up for that though, it's sitting at about 2.4% compared to 1.4% for the indi.
Food for thought.
-
Management fees for RMB Mid Cap ETF
First R20,000,000 0.50%
Each Subsequent Rand over R20,000,000 0.20%
They're up to about 100m at the moment. No TER or financials as it's too new...
-
Wow, that's a mouth full, need time to sort out first, will get back.
Um, I forgot about this. :o
-
Have to add a downside to this ETF. As the value is so low, +-R5.60, the 7c spread means you pay a 3.5c premium per share. That's a percentage of 0.625%. Quite high if you compare it to the satrix indi which has a 12c spread ie. premium of 6c for a R50 share. That works out to 0.12%, significantly lower.
The dividend of the midcap seems to make up for that though, it's sitting at about 2.4% compared to 1.4% for the indi.
Food for thought.
The spread for this (ASHMID) is sitting at 60c this morning with a last traded price of 743, that's a 8% spread. :wall:
-
One thing to note, as Simon from Just One Lap realised in one of his podcasts a few months ago, when one of the big Top40 companies start going down and continue its fall into the MidCap index, it drags the whole index down because the smaller companies that make up the MidCap index are too small to negate the negative impact of a larger, previously Top40 company going to hell.
-
One thing to note, as Simon from Just One Lap realised in one of his podcasts a few months ago, when one of the big Top40 companies start going down and continue its fall into the MidCap index, it drags the whole index down because the smaller companies that make up the MidCap index are too small to negate the negative impact of a larger, previously Top40 company going to hell.
True, but even with the odd company crashing and burning, mid and small cap indexes still outperform large cap in the long term (with more risk of course).