Author Topic: Pulverized Sand Box  (Read 569949 times)

jaDEB

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #360 on: April 07, 2015, 09:33:38 am »
http://www.biznews.com/global-investing/2015/04/07/good-news-for-naspers-tencent-discount-getting-harder-to-justify/

Good news for Naspers – Tencent discount “getting harder to justify”

The greatest private equity investment in history is looking even better this morning. When Naspers bought 46% of Hong Kong-based Tencent in 2001 (that’s since been diluted to 34%) it was part of a strategy akin to throwing mud at the wall and hoping some stuck. The Tencent investment has solidified into granite with the group now generating the fourth most revenue of any Internet company worldwide – only Amazon, Google and eBay are ahead of it. In this considered piece, Robyn Mak of Reuters Breakingviews argues that the discount at which Tencent trades to Facebook is unjustified. Thousands of South African shareholders in Naspers, who have watched the explosion of their investment in wonder, will be hoping Wall Street picks up on the theme. – AH 

By Robyn Mak

HONG KONG, April 7 (Reuters Breakingviews) – Tencent’s discount to Facebook is getting harder to justify. The Chinese social media giant brought in roughly the same amount of revenue as its U.S. counterpart last year and was more profitable. Yet it trades at a lower multiple of earnings. The valuation gap warrants a rethink.
Tencent Chairman & Chief Executive Officer Pony Ma attends a news conference announcing the company's results in Hong Kong March 18, 2015. Tencent Holdings Ltd , China's biggest social network and online entertainment firm, posted a 51 percent gain in fourth-quarter net income, missing estimates, as sharing and content costs took a bite out of healthy revenue growth. REUTERS/Bobby Yip 
Tencent Chairman & Chief Executive Officer Pony Ma attends a news conference announcing the company’s results in Hong Kong March 18, 2015. Tencent Holdings Ltd , China’s biggest social network and online entertainment firm, posted a 51 percent gain in fourth-quarter net income, missing estimates, as sharing and content costs took a bite out of healthy revenue growth. REUTERS/Bobby Yip
 
In China, where Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube are banned, Tencent dominates the country’s social media networks. The Hong Kong-listed company boasts over 1.4 billion monthly active users on its Facebook-like QQ and QZone platforms. Its popular chat app WeChat, which combines messaging, games and payments, now has 500 million users each month. Though many users probably have multiple accounts, they generated $12.7 billion in revenue for Tencent last year, slightly more than Facebook’s $12.5 billion.

The similarities between the two end here. While advertising accounted for 92 percent of Facebook’s revenue, gaming is Tencent’s primary source of income. Games like League of Legends and Candy Crush Saga generated 57 percent of the company’s revenue. Membership fees from QQ and Qzone brought in an additional $3 billion. The Chinese group’s 30 percent net margin is also healthier than Facebook’s 23 percent. As a result, Tencent’s earnings last year were a third higher than at Mark Zuckerberg’s company.

How social networks make money

Yet investors place a lower value on the Chinese group’s earnings. Its shares trade at 33 times forecast net profit for the next twelve months, according Eikon. Facebook shares are on 39 times. Concerns about future growth may help to explain the gap: Tencent may find it hard to expand far beyond China’s borders. By contrast, just 15 percent of Facebook’s monthly active users are in North America. That may explain why its earnings are expected to grow faster in the future.

Even so, the difference may be harder to justify as the two business models converge. Facebook announced on March 25 that it would open up its Messenger app to become a platform for other services – similar to WeChat. Meanwhile Tencent is experimenting with advertising on its chat app, which Barclays estimates could generate more than $3 billion in revenue by 2017. Tencent shares have risen by more than 30 percent this year, while Facebook’s are up less than 5 percent. Expect the gap to narrow further. – Reuters
jaDEB

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Patrick

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #361 on: April 07, 2015, 10:25:07 am »
Excellent news, I don't hold any NPN directly, but I do hold loads of STXIND which is 17.7% NPN. I know a lot of people can't justify the prices, but clearly they're in the minority, the market seems to love NPN.

JDP

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #362 on: April 07, 2015, 11:04:47 am »
So they hold 34% of tencent, interesting.

And the Price tag of  188437c for a company that hold 34% of "the group now generating the fourth most revenue of any Internet company worldwide only Amazon, Google and eBay are ahead of it",
is too much. :)

I wonder what would be a reasonable price if NPN held 34% of facebook? or 24% of Facebook,  5% of eBay and 5% of Amazon?

PS : I think a lot of people in SA, still think SA is the sea and not the pond.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 11:06:38 am by JDP »

jaDEB

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #363 on: April 07, 2015, 12:28:07 pm »
@ JDP & Patrick,

I have had a cr@p Monday morning so far on this Tuesday. u 2 are confusing me.

And the Price tag of  188437c for a company that hold 34% of "the group now generating the fourth most revenue of any Internet company worldwide only Amazon, Google and eBay are ahead of it",
is too much

I think a lot of people in SA, still think SA is the sea and not the pond

I know a lot of people can't justify the prices

Thus you both think NPN is to high?


I understand that if you buy NPN, u are actually only buying Tencent's value they hold at the NPN price.
jaDEB

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JDP

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #364 on: April 07, 2015, 01:31:49 pm »
I do agree that Tencent is undervalued when compared with Facebook.

I also don't agree that NPN is overvalued, but its is getting there fast.

Patrick

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #365 on: April 07, 2015, 03:59:46 pm »
I think it's exactly where it should be! (My way of saying I can't really tell which way it'll go)

jaDEB

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #366 on: April 07, 2015, 04:13:40 pm »
 ???

Any1 have this 1?

jaDEB

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Alsie

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #367 on: April 08, 2015, 07:50:11 am »
As far as NPN goes - when I bought in @ R549 the shares were "fully valued".
When I doubled up my holdings @ R987, the shares were "expensive".
Now at R1870 they are "overvalued".
I wander what they will be @ R2,500 ???

jaDEB

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #368 on: April 08, 2015, 08:23:31 am »
 :)
jaDEB

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jaDEB

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #369 on: April 08, 2015, 06:39:53 pm »
wEEKLY (i THiNK) RE-lOOK AT MY p  :-* RT

NPn -  :P
aVL -  :question:
APn -  ::)
OcE -  :whistle:
jaDEB

If it scares you, it's a sign you need to do it

jaDEB

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #370 on: April 09, 2015, 08:29:27 am »
 :-[

Angels with silver wings. Shouldn't know suffering. I wish I could take the pain for you. If God has a master plan. That only He understands.

Depeche mode
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 05:44:36 pm by jaDEB »
jaDEB

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Nivek

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #371 on: April 09, 2015, 08:34:56 am »
En daai gesig? :question:

jaDEB

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #372 on: April 09, 2015, 10:55:01 am »
Not Market related.  :-[  But thanks for asking
jaDEB

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jaDEB

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #373 on: April 09, 2015, 03:51:28 pm »
Thanks qriffin, I keep calling you Griffin ....  :frustrated:

Shares in Hong Kong and Tokyo outperform the region to scale fresh multi-year highs early Thursday. Other parts of Asia saw relatively muted gains as a near 7 percent slide in oil prices tapered the impact of an inspiring lead from Wall Street overnight.

Hang Seng surges 4% to 7-year high; Nikkei at 15-year high

jaDEB

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Patrick

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Re: Pulverized Sand Box
« Reply #374 on: April 09, 2015, 07:26:20 pm »
Actually were above that point. The average p/e is currently sitting at around 200. The p/e of the NASDAQ was 146 at its peak. .