Author Topic: Offshore broke4s  (Read 5462 times)

Govprof

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Offshore broke4s
« on: July 28, 2016, 06:46:27 pm »
Hi all

New to the site. Been reading a lot and really enjoying it.

With regard to offshore brokers - I just completed my first trade with De Giro.  They are a Dutch online brokerage with ridiculously low prices.  In fact for a whole slew of etf's they don't charge anything. When registering I used the UK  platform and my SARS tax number for the NI number as instructed by the support team.

I now think the cheapest path to offshore investment is via exchange4free as recommended by Partick, into your international bank account (UK?) and then invest with De Giro.

Thoughts?

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Patrick

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2016, 08:20:09 am »
I haven't looked at De Giro, but I'll take a quick look. When I compared I found interactive brokers to be the cheapest.

Do you have a UK bank account? I'm looking for a cost effective offshore account option for someone in my family who doesn't have the ability to travel and open one.

Govprof

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2016, 09:47:14 am »
I started looking at interactive brokers after reading your post. Also looked at Saxo but in the end it looked like De Giro was really a whole lot cheaper (free etf trading) and a lot less shlep setting up.

I do have a UK bank account, opened it with Investec.  You need £1000 to open the account but you don't need to maintain that level. Costs £10 per month.



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Patrick

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2016, 10:47:59 am »
Thanks, I'll look into the investec option. For DeGiro, I'm trying to get my head around all the costs. The commission free ETFs sound great, my favourite, VWRD is there too, just listed on a euro exchange in euros rather than $. What I can't find is if there are any monthly fees for the account, or any custody fees if you're holding those ETFs.

Govprof

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 07:06:33 pm »
VWRD is available in pound, it's just not listed that well. If you search using the IE number you will find it. But only the Euro denominated fund falls under their free trading offer.



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yozzi

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2016, 10:14:20 am »
I haven't looked at De Giro, but I'll take a quick look. When I compared I found interactive brokers to be the cheapest.

Do you have a UK bank account? I'm looking for a cost effective offshore account option for someone in my family who doesn't have the ability to travel and open one.

Patrick, I have an acc in the UK with Nationwide and they have always been very efficient and provide good service and attend to any queries immediately not sure how you open an acc from here as I am originally from the UK and go back frequently but would recommend them

Patrick

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2016, 10:27:10 am »
Thanks, I'll send them a note to see if they'll open an account for a foreigner. I know some European countries do, but it's not a fullt fledged transactional account, and won't allow the use of a debit card when traveling.

yozzi

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2016, 10:30:06 am »
Thanks, I'll look into the investec option. For DeGiro, I'm trying to get my head around all the costs. The commission free ETFs sound great, my favourite, VWRD is there too, just listed on a euro exchange in euros rather than $. What I can't find is if there are any monthly fees for the account, or any custody fees if you're holding those ETFs.

Have opened an offshore broker acc with TD Direct International which because of all the forms and questions they ask has taken forever and now when I transferred funds into the acc and asked to buy ETF's they sent me this reply:

If this is an ETF that is leveraged or involves short selling then you will have to complete the ‘complex products test’.

You will also have to accept the exchange agreement for investing in the US.


So doesn't look like I'm going to be using them and the DeGiro option looks much better - was it easy to open an acc with them to trade ETF's? No 'products tests' or similar?
 

yozzi

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2016, 03:11:38 pm »
Opened an acc with Degiro today after reading this review online:

moneygrower.co.uk/2015/06/degiro-a-review-of-uks-cheapest-investing-platform/


Govprof

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2016, 05:50:14 pm »
No products test. Very simple

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Mr_Dividend

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2016, 11:34:45 am »
Govprof - how is this combination (investec account and de Giro) working out for you?

Very interested in the combination myself.

Are there are monthly account fees with de Giro?

Anyone find a way to open a UK bank account without having to visit the UK?


Govprof

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2016, 04:32:29 pm »
Hey Mr_D.

Thus far it's been great. I have a local Investec account and through them was able to open the UK Investec account. The cost is £10 per month. 

On the De Giro side the only costs are trading costs and these are ridiculously low in comparison to what I have seen on other platforms.

I'm new to the game so I might be missing something. But so far... all good.

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Mr_Dividend

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2016, 06:15:35 pm »
aaah, only read that part now, unfortunatly.

Quote
Available to South African Investec Private Banking clients, the Investec UK Private Bank Account provides you with a transactional account in the United Kingdom.

And heres me with only a capitec account.

 :D

Patrick

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2016, 10:37:07 am »
For you guys opening the De Giro accounts, just make sure you get the CUSTODY account, and not the regular account. With the regular account your shares are lent to others (to be shorted I assume). Trouble is, the risks are on you should the party lending the shares not be able to return them.

This isn't an issue with the newer custody accounts.

I'm still looking at costs. At the moment if I buy VWRD through interactive, I pay 0.08% with a minimum of $1.70 per transaction. With De Giro I'd pay €2 + 0.02%.

Here's how I see the costs:
$1000 IB: $1.70 DG: €2+$0.2
$2000 IB: $1.70 DG: €2+$0.4
$3000 IB: $2.40 DG: €2+$0.6
$4000 IB: $3.20 DG: €2+$0.8 (+-$3)
$5000 IB: $4.00 DG: €2+$1.00
$10000 IB: $8.00 DG: €2+$2.00

It looks to me like there's a crossover point at around the $4000 mark, before that interactive is cheeper, and after that De Giro is cheaper. This is all provided you have $100 000 in interactive, otherwise you pay $10 per month for the account. There will be another crossover too, with IB there's a maximum fee of $39, so for very big transactions IB will be cheaper again.

In theory you could also just buy VWRD in Euros for no fees, however since I have $'s in my account and not Euros, I'd have to pay 0.1% currency conversion, so again it would only be cheaper for very small amounts.

Another theory says I should just buy VT in USD, which has TER than VWRD (0.17% vs 0.25%), but then the hoops to jump through to get the divvie tax reduced from 30% to 15%, and there's the risk of holding over $60k and dying and having to put the US estate tax treaty with SA to the test. So much to consider for a saving of a couple of $ a month!

francismichael

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Re: Offshore broke4s
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2018, 10:32:22 am »
Hi all,
I'm new to the the investor challenge, but have listened to a lot of the Fat Wallet Show ,and been reading Patrick's blogs. I have a Euro bank account and have been looking for the most cost effective way to invest in global ETF's. I finally got the De Giro recommendation through Patrick's blog and these discussions and have successfully opened a CUSTODY account with them.

They allow 1 ETF purchase per month free of fees, and after that the fees are pretty low anyway. So my plan is to buy the Vanguard FTSE world monthly. I think this is the Ireland domiciled ETF, which Patrick recommends and has a 0,25% fee. No monthly account fees for De Giro and if I stick to the plan no broker fees, amazing!

My only concern is I don't know much about EU legislation and how De Giro handles shares. If De Giro goes bust, what is my country party risk? Vanguard physically holds the shares in my name right?
Also, I presume I need an additional will, but should that be in the domiciled country of the ETF (Ireland), or of the Broker (Netherlands or Ireland) or of my EU bank account (Germany) ?

Others who have their ETF's with De Giro, are you confident with your money sitting over there on the other side of the world? Still coming to terms with offshore investing.

Also I read somewhere that De Giro do Crypto.. I wonder if I can deposit Bitcoin and sell it and buy ETFs....