Author Topic: My new LT CGT portfolio  (Read 12396 times)

Mr_Dividend

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My new LT CGT portfolio
« on: September 19, 2016, 05:52:06 pm »
If anyone is interested this my new small long term portfolio to eventually get the tax free portion of CGT every year - yes, I am learning! Not looking at touching it for a few years - probably 5.  At the minimum I am expecting it to double - but hoping, of course, for more. Would not be surprised if a couple turn out to be duds - but a expect some could really do well. Have used easyequities for the portfolio - it's not a huge amount of money (around R350K), and when it comes time to sell would like to just trim from a wide range of shares. Am still buying on dips, so not fully invested yet, will be though by the end of October. Yes before you ask, it's a lot of shares - I have no problem with that.

micromega
calgro
afrimat
adaptit
acendis
coh
taste
eoh
capitec
mediclinic (mei)?
csg
santova
finbond
aeei (aee)

cil
Aspen
Fam brands?
balwin
rhodes

Basically have been selected on past performance, future expectations and if I think the share is trading at a reasonable price. Not all hit all those requirements of course, sometimes I just like the company!



« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 05:55:13 pm by Mr_Dividend »

Orca

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2016, 06:58:41 pm »
Good to see that you have my 2 favorite shares there. Adaptit and CIL but you forgot PGR.

My entire pension is in the following:
ADI
CIL
PGR
DIVTRX at ~ 60%

I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Mr_Dividend

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2016, 08:35:53 pm »
CIL - like the story, but will have a smaller weighting than ADR - which will be the largest along with Capitec and tossing up between Micromega/EOH.

Have PGR in the larger portfolio - bought twice nov 2013 and july 2014. Considered adding a bit more based on fairly smooth heps growth.

jonb

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 01:57:20 pm »
@ MR Dividend

If anyone is interested this my new small long term portfolio to eventually get the tax free portion of CGT every year - yes, I am learning!

What do you mean by this ?? tax free portion of CGT every year ? i also want t learn :)

@ Orca

any reason why DIVTRX over CSEW40 or NFEMOM ? would love to hear why you lean more towards that

Mr_Dividend

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 03:06:29 pm »
You get R40K of CGT - Free per tax year - it goes up occasionally.  So, if you bought R100k worth of shares, have them for a minimum of 3 years - and sell them for R160K

The first R40K profit is tax free (barring any other CGT events in that tax year)
You then take the left over R20K "profit", take 40% of it , so R8K and add that to your income - therefore you will be taxed on it at your marginal rate - anywhere between 18 - 41%

I haven't quite done the maths - but I think it makes sense to use the R40K EVERY YEAR - Even buying and selling the same share. Need to do the maths, and would be dependent on a few factors/costs.

jonb

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 03:56:24 pm »
interesting, thanks!!!

so for example you invest 100k , after 3 years make 150k

10K becomes taxable as CGT ?

how would you take advantage of this yearly? the buy and sell element.... i just dont get that part ?




Orca

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 04:29:22 pm »
You will have to sell every 3 years not every year. One good thing about doing that will be that your base cost gets readjusted every 3 years so it won't be a huge tax bill if you hold for 15 years.

@jonb. I always look at the history of a stock and CSEW40 has none. Companies that increase their dividends every year can only be good growing companies. That is why I prefer DIVTRX over NFEMOM.
Also, the divies are better and I don't pay DWT on the foreign portion. 
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Mr_Dividend

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 05:06:07 pm »
Jon - in your example, 40% of that R10K - so R4K gets added to your income.

Orca - sorry, I did mean use the R40K every year - but use it on a different  holding. Once used on a holding, as you say, you will then need to hold it for another 3 year.

Jon, BTW, alot of a share gains is just rand weakness. so you could have a case where a share is flat in dollar terms, but shot up in rand terms. So paying CGT on an asset that has gone no where.  :frustrated:

conradl

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2016, 07:25:10 am »
Hey Divi,

Stupid question regarding the tax. Let's say you are paying 28%, but adding the capital gains, let's say 100k moves you into the next bracket. Do you pay the percentage on the next bracket or at the original rate?

I see it as the tax rate before adding your capital gains to your total income?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 07:37:37 am by conradl »

Mr_Dividend

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2016, 08:47:06 am »
Conrad - I am 95% sure that  only the portion that falls in the new tax bracket will incur that tax as it just gets added together

But tax tables are "smooth" and there is no way that you when you earn more, you get less because you jump into a new bracket - maybe a couple of bucks - but nothing to write home about.  Could be wrong.


saints

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2016, 09:49:55 am »
Hi Orca et al, although this is my first post I have been following this forum for quite some time particularly your posts Orca. I think you are one of the only people who has actually pulled off  retiring early on your investments which is probably what most of us only dream of.

I have a few questions based upon this thread. I have a decent long term portfolio with some shares that I have held for over 15 years. There was a comment on the base cost for calculating CGT being adjusted every 3 years. How does this get adjusted and where does one access these adjusted rates?

Secondly and probably best directed t you Orca is the question of CGT rates across different countries. Orca, to which country do you pay your CGT? I looked at the UK's rates and I would much prefer to pay my CGT to South African revenue services than the UK if I was living in the UK. Obviously residence-based taxation is a factor to be considered.

Orca

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2016, 10:46:07 am »
@saints. You have to calculate the base cost yourself. I use the weighted average method but you can opt for the First in First out method.

Weighted Average: Add all the "Due By You" amounts on the contract notes and divide by the total number of shares. This will be your Base Cost. No need to work out costs as the "Due By You" amounts already includes this. When you sell, you use this base cost multiplied by the number of shares sold.

FIFO: Not recommended. You sell the first tranche that you bought first at the Base Cost you calculated.
Each batch will have a different Base Cost. If "Sell" amount is more than your first batch then you will have to use up the first batch and do a new calculation at the base cost of the next batch and so on. Very tedious method.

Tip: Keep a folder for each share for the Contract Notes and do your calculations in Excel and file it. Discard the Excel sheet when you top up the share and print an updated one. I will post an example of mine soon.

SARS has a Residence Based system so I pay no CGT to SARS.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 05:53:14 pm by Orca »
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Orca

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2016, 11:04:26 am »
Here is an example.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

saints

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2016, 08:53:30 am »
Thanks Orca, using the weighted average method certainly makes more sense than 'FIFO'.

Back to the original theme from this thread which I may have deviated from, a comment from me is that I have noticed the portfolio in discussion represents solid reputable companies, if the local economy were in a better state then a few higher risk, potential 10-baggers could be included. When originally setting up my long term portfolio my selection process was based on shares that had the potential for significant capital growth with risk attached. I have added very few shares in the past few years whilst the economy has been slow.

Mr_Dividend

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Re: My new LT CGT portfolio
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2016, 07:44:17 am »
All invested - hopefully in time for the Christmas bull run  :D

And to recap - looking for growth, will not be touching these shares for around 5 years. Dividends we remain in the portfolio. I have selected shares that i feel have a decent chance of doubling in 5 years, with a few that a feel have a chance of tripling or more. And yes, I expect a dud or two as well. Most have been selected because of good HEPS growth over 5 years vs value. But some have been more on gut - as you do!

Using easy equities because of the small holding size and when I come to sell, want to just trim from all, which you cannot do if you have a min charge of R140 or more with the other brokers.

I would say this portfolio, although relatively diverse, would be considered fairly aggressive with such a large amount of small caps and will be interesting to see what it does. And as I was thinking of using the money overseas I think it worth tracking vs dollar.

Will update monthly - total invested R339,800 - let's call it R340,000. $24 250

Aspen   20000   61,8816   323,20
Curro   20000   523,56   38,20
CIL   10000   390,0196   25,64
Finbond   10000   3394,9085   2,95
MicroMega   20000   2000,3518   10,00
Santova   10000   2500,0935   4,00
Taste   20000   6954,0452   2,88
AdaptIT   20000   1555   12,86
AEEI   10000   3437,89   2,91
Afrimat   20000   840,87   23,78
Acendis   20000   752,82   26,57
Balwin   10000   1215,38   8,23
CalgroM3   20000   1118,39   17,88
Capitec   29800   45,96   648,39
CSG   10000   7244,22   1,38
EOH   30000   186,12   161,19
Mediclinic   20000   121,01   165,28
Naspers   10000   4,4   2 272,73
Rhodes   10000   347,99   28,74
Rolfes   10000   2444   4,09
Sygnia   10000   619,19   16,15