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General Category => Shares => Topic started by: Mr_Dividend on December 20, 2015, 02:48:15 pm

Title: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 20, 2015, 02:48:15 pm
Day 1 :: R-200

** Please Note ** You would be crazy to act on any "advice" given by me, or anyone else on this thread. I am a totally beginner and my knowledge of sharing trading could be written on the back of a match box. I am not that good at investing ether.

A week or so ago I started looking into trading CFD's - basically wanted to get involved in shorts when a certain idiot decided to fire another person. So looked into it and decided to give it a go. Had some success on GT247's demo account - so opened a live account with a tiny amount (R4000) and lost R200 the first day, Friday  :D

I am sure I will be loosing a lot more in the near future, but also plan to learn from my (I am sure frequent!) mistakes. Anyway, I thought some on here might be interested in trading and would enjoy having a giggle at my expense  :(

I have another R20K or so earmarked for this, will put it in slowly over 6 months, I am hoping after 6 months I will start to show some sort of improvement.  That said, I am really enjoying this, might have actually found the paying hobby I have been looking for. Day one, lost R80 on trades and spent R120 on fees - need to be a bit more patient.

Will see what direction the markets move tomorrow but if up, will be looking to go long on CML and possibly Sasol

actually negative on Sasol - checked the RSI
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Orca on December 20, 2015, 08:52:46 pm
This is not for a novice. You have to have strict discipline in place. A demo has no emotional aspects to it and would look good but real money is a totally different story.
You have to know charting and where to place your take profit and where to place your stop losses. Then stick to it. Then stick to it again. Never deviate from your plan even if the stock seems to have room to go higher. This was my downfall as I always thought it would go higher.
Good luck.
By the way, RES seems like a good punt if the market allows tomorrow.
 
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Nivek on December 20, 2015, 09:12:52 pm
Following. Is it going to be like that car accident you just can't look away from, or will it be lifestyles of the rich and famous :)
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 21, 2015, 04:53:36 am
Quote
By the way, RES seems like a good punt if the market allows tomorrow

Cheers - will take a look. Did scan Growthpoint and Redefine - nether of them fitted. Those two (I think) are the most traded property counters, but will add RES as it's more a growth play and should be traded in significant enough numbers.

Only learn't about the RSI yesterday - wow, what an interesting indicator. Suggest anybody with an interest in shares learn about it on youtube - takes 10 minutes.

Plan is to be at my desk at around 08H00 and scan for trades to be ready for the 09H00 kick off - then just trade for an hour to 2 hours. Haven't decided if I should day trader or swing trader - kinda like the idea of closing all trades by the end of the day as I would have though it cut's down on risk. That said, it doesn't take a genius to see that to get a very nice return, you sometimes need to let the share run/ or tank, on a few days - and entering and exiting will cost quite a bit more in fees.

Nivek - I have dreams. Big dreams.


(but would be happy with just making a R100 profit this week) :)
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on December 21, 2015, 08:05:20 am
 :TU:

Just keep it up...
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Patrick on December 21, 2015, 08:35:27 am
This is something I've always wandered about but never had the apples to try. It will be interesting to see how a relative beginner progresses. Good thread.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: czc on December 21, 2015, 09:06:10 am
Interesting.

So is this what I keep hearing about with gearing and shorting and all those buzz words?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 21, 2015, 09:06:27 am
Order in for 200 CML <5100 and 500 ACL (pure RSI play) @ <300

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 21, 2015, 09:21:02 am
Interesting.

So is this what I keep hearing about with gearing and shorting and all those buzz words?

Pretty much - basically, depending on share, you only put down a portion of the value. So bought my cml (margin) for around R2000, but "worth" R10,000 - and I keep the whole movement on the share (good OR bad) - so can be dangerous.

ACL said I must phone - so scrapped that deal

went with Arrowhead - been hit hard lately for no real reason beside they joining A's and B's - tiny order, just 250 - but practicing placing orders.



Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: gcr on December 21, 2015, 09:35:08 am
Order in for 200 CML <5100 and 500 ACL (pure RSI play) @ <300
So you would have picked up CML - what's your exit price?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 21, 2015, 09:35:58 am
Will let CML run for a bit

But AWA is more a hit and run kinda play Bought at R7.80 need to put a sell order on. Costs are 0.1% on buy and sell, so give or take 0.2% - so call it 782c. Will set one at 820. So 820 - 782 = 38c x 250 equals a cool R95.   ;)
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 21, 2015, 09:41:49 am
Order in for 200 CML <5100 and 500 ACL (pure RSI play) @ <300
So you would have picked up CML - what's your exit price?

Will track the RSI with CML - it's not popular at the moment so might sell when it reaches around 50. That said, it all depends on what chart you looking at. CML's RSI is 1 hr = 42 and on the 1 day is 21. I would have thought the 1 day - but I am guessing that's only compiled at the end of the day, so that would only help if I kept it for a few days. Which i might. Christmas rally....
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 21, 2015, 10:14:12 am
Now, my target till the end of January is to make R100 per day. Had I sold quickly - I could have done that within 20 minutes. - Was up around R195. But of course, we always want more, don't we.

get in, make your target,  get out is, I guess, the aim of a day trader. No get in, make some money and go "ooh, that was easy, let's make some more..." .

have now set a sell price of 5195 for CML.

long on 100 whl - bought at 9766 - looking for 9863
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: czc on December 21, 2015, 11:33:56 am
Which account did you chose? EQ Trader or Future Trader?

Checking out a demo account can't hurt.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 21, 2015, 11:49:22 am
EQ trader

Couple of things they do not tell you...

It does not run on chrome - works fine on Mozilla.

After installing it -go back and read the instructions - you need to go into Java to make a short cut.

But it's pretty straight forward - and good fun.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on December 21, 2015, 12:04:27 pm
Checking out a demo account can't hurt.

Yes it can.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 21, 2015, 01:12:45 pm
Right. After having my hour lunch I now go have my hour nap  ;D

As I was checking CML was making a new high (from this morning) - so closed that trade, then lowered the WHL price which got closed  a minute or so later. Even on the open AWA trade and R146 up on the day (think fees have been taken of, but will only confirm that in the morning when the statement comes through. BTW, on my starting R3800 that's an increase of 3.8%.

WHL back down to 9756 - so timed that perfectly. Patience was rewarded. Tempted to close the AWA position - but "think" I should be safe. Famous last words  :)) It is a tiny position though.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 21, 2015, 06:52:32 pm
Did a small Glencore short at the end of the day - probably more "just for the sake of it" than anything else - stupid - but made a couple of bucks. AWA I came out even. Pity I did not stick with keeping CML for longer as it traded up quite a bit and ended around R52 - which is what I was hoping for.

Will have to keep an eye out for my "quick punts" - I can be a bit of a gambler by nature - and of course in my mind, I've plotted the course of the share. Who knows?

That said, do you kick yourself for not sticking to your guns, or do you pat yourself on your back for making your target? I guess I will figure that out in time - but hitting target might be the be all and end all.  Anyway, a good day, 4 trades all in the green bar one which ended even. I was looking for reversals for CML and AWA, momentum up in WHL and momentum down in Glencore.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 22, 2015, 04:47:36 am
managed to squeeze in a couple of mistakes to end of the day  :(

At around 19H00 was bit bored, so was looking around the product available to trade on GT247 - and of course, found some that where open.....

So went short on gold and oil. Of course I know everything about gold and oil. I am from SA and gold litters the place, and oil? well I frequently use the stuff in the car and bike...

Firstly, was looking at the wrong (I was looking as a total NASDAQ) when I did the gold one. Anyway, they move pretty slowly so extracted myself after loosing around R30. Not sure how it works, but you do not seem to pay commission...

So should not have been in the trades at all, then I need to be looking at the right graph - and lastly.....I set and order to sell the oil at a certain price. After I while I manually cancelled the trade, but forgot about the order. Turn of the PC and walk away.

And at some time during the night, the order triggers. I've only just found out by looking at my statement and wondering why I still have a trade out. Anyway, logged in and am up R50. But it's something I really need to watch out for CHECK FOR ANY OPEN ORDERS BEFORE CLOSING.  That said, quite easy on JSE orders to tick the "this order is only good for today box" and those orders get cancelled at 17H00 - but of course, if you power down at 14H00 - there is still 3 hours for them to be executed.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on December 22, 2015, 07:48:27 am
 ;), I like what u are doing, small steps... I did it years ago, GT247 account, switched of my computer and drove home from work. By the time I got home lost all my money..told the broker to take the R36 left in my account and buy a coke...

But seeing u do it, I might have a look again in 2016, but also like you small steps
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 22, 2015, 08:48:40 am
Jadeb - yeah, hopefully any lessons learn't will not be too painful on the pocket.

Day 2 : +R127

Yesterday, although more patient than day 1, I still could have made more on CML had I stuck to my guns. I think if I have conviction on a trade I must try stick it out to 15H00 - 16H00. Other trades will be more in and out.

I still think we might have an ok run up to Christmas - so am bullish.

New Order : looking for Reversal
New Order :
Buy 500 Grindrod Ltd
The margin change will be in the region of 984.38
The required margin will be in the region of 984.38
Order will execute when the bid price <= 1,050.00

target: 1100

New Order :
Buy 300 Old Mutual Plc
The margin change will be in the region of 1,483.13
The required margin will be in the region of 1,483.13
Order will execute when the bid price <= 3,955.00

target 4200






Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 22, 2015, 08:54:46 am
New Order :
Buy 100 Gold Fields Ltd
The margin change will be in the region of 531.25
The required margin will be in the region of 531.25
Order will execute when the bid price <= 4,250.00

target 4400
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 22, 2015, 04:55:45 pm
Not a very good day. Made a few jump in and out trades, buy the time you sell, your slim profit margin vanishes. I can now add AWA to one that got away. Bought yesterday at 780, and after a few 20c swings sold at 790.  It closed yesterday at around 805 and then hit 845 today - looks like it will lose at around 825. GND I also closed to early.

OML - I still think looks good for 4200 - so I am going to keep it open and see what it does tomorrow.

I also have a short on 500 AWA at 826 hoping for a pull back to 815 where I have a buy order. Think this might just be sour grapes on my part!    ;)

looks like I am making a R50 buck trading profit but will be making a loss after trading fees.

Fewer, but better researched trades, probably the way to go. But still early days.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: JohnnyH on December 22, 2015, 11:28:40 pm
Really interesting reading about your trading! How do you decide which shares to trade? Any reason you don't do something like DSY? Santam is a boring share, but has been steadily climbing lately, would you consider that?

Please keep updating this thread :)

Sent from my P6-U06 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 23, 2015, 05:35:25 am
Jonny, I  trying to spot trends or possible reversals - then of course, you need to time you entry and exit. You kind of need to get it all 3 right to make a successful trade. My original idea was get in and out in anything from a couple of minutes to a day - so a proper day trader - seems safer because the more you holding a share, the more unexpected news could harm you. But I am not so sure now as the few trades I have properly identified I have miss timed.

Building up on the knowledge side, but at the moment using the RSI, Bollinger bands, and MACD - not very successfully, but early days. I have learned quite a bit in a couple of weeks, but have only just scratched the surface - I am sure I will probably trading totally differently in a few months.

Will limit myself to just a couple of trades for the next couple of days - trades that hopefully could make a decent move.

Yesterday was a bit irritating as I did expect the market to rise, and I had looked at some that did very well, but unfortunately backed the wrong shares. At least I can take comfort in that my main portfolios all had a good days!

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on December 23, 2015, 08:06:27 am
Graphs u use is correct, but please note, "News over rides the graphs" thus always keep eye on news.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 23, 2015, 08:53:09 am
Graphs u use is correct, but please note, "News over rides the graphs" thus always keep eye on news.

Without a doubt - thank goodness there should not be to much news around this time of year - and because of this slightly wary of MTN - obviously big news is expected at some time

So have R3828.19 in the kitty - lost R171.81 yesterday.
Carried a short and a long over last night for the first time. you pay interest on the long and GET interest on the short. BTW, different shares have different margin requirements, so AWA is 25%, OML 12.5%, Grinrod 18.75%, BHP 12.5%, Tiger Brands 12.5%, CML 18.75% FSR 12.5%

I have started putting in stop losses when i am going to be leaving my desk for a bit - but I think GT247 could make the ordering process a lot easier. If you want to buy a share when it get's to a certain price, set a stop loss but also sell it if it goes over a price, you seem to need to place three orders - which I find weird, but maybe I am not factoring/using/understanding the trailing order properly.

Anyhow: Overall - 60% bullish on the overall market.

Have a long on 300 OML - happy with that, will look to sell at between 4100 and 4200
Have a (probably misguided) short on AWA - because I missed the long, grrr. Purely on the very scientific "what goes up, must come down, even a little bit" theory.

Have placed buy order for Sasol and tempted to put a sell on Steinhoff at 7800 but it would go against my feeling that the market will still be bullish - so not placing it for that reason

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on December 23, 2015, 09:04:23 am

Without a doubt - thank goodness there should not be to much news around this time of year - and because of this slightly wary of MTN - obviously big news is expected at some time


http://www.moneyweb.co.za/news/companies-and-deals/nigeria-to-enforce-dececember-31-deadline-for-3-9bn-mtn-fine/
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 23, 2015, 09:23:08 am
Cheers. see MTN tanked at the end of yesterday.

Ended up getting SOL @ 39600 - and firmly in the green



OML doing well  and overall account is now in the green - if by only R50 or so.

Over R200 today - so target reached - so do I sell and shut up shop for the day? I day trader would...but seems I am having an identity crisis - day trader or swing trader...

I had decided to let them run as in the past have cash out a bit too easily...

SOL trying to get past 40000....
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 23, 2015, 09:27:31 am
Pulled out of my long AWA position by just hitting the Buy button. Stooopid. Did not look at the price I was buying so lost R40. should have rather put in an offer - it's not like the price is moving at light speed.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 23, 2015, 09:46:35 am
Got out of SOL at 40580 - profit of R176 - my biggest yet!

should close the screen now as i've seen it hit 40850....did i close another one too early? or should I just be happy and making a few bucks?? It's just human nature to want more, and more isn't it? greedy buggers...
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 23, 2015, 09:53:43 am
Have put a sell order on OML for 3995 - not far of it's current 3980 - if that completes it would have been a pretty decent day, firmly in the green. Or should I just close OML and bank the profits. Now down to 3971....
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 23, 2015, 10:10:43 am
Figured I would amend the OML order to only sell half - something I should maybe think about doing more often, lock in some profits but keep part of the trade open. makes it very viable when there is no minimum - thx GT247. That said, the order executed while I was changing it, so am out.

Account says I am on R4070 - but might drop a bit come morning.

hardest thing now is going to be not to place another trade for the rest of the day.....

Time to have a bit of a clean up in the workshop, and have a lot of marrows and beans in the garden - need to make something with them. Probably best i do not look at SOl or OML graphs during the day - but will check what they end up on.

That said -- shutting down OML and seen it broke through 4000 - $%#@#$
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: JohnnyH on December 23, 2015, 07:06:06 pm
MrD, if I may ask. Have you considered running trades over a longer period seeing that you can set stop loss &  stop profits? For instance, if you got CML @ 5000, set the profit to 5500 & give it some time to see if it can get there?

To me that sounds like something I could do as well, set &  "forget". Just a thought.

Sent from my P6-U06 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 24, 2015, 04:19:53 am
MrD, if I may ask. Have you considered running trades over a longer period seeing that you can set stop loss &  stop profits? For instance, if you got CML @ 5000, set the profit to 5500 & give it some time to see if it can get there?

To me that sounds like something I could do as well, set &  "forget". Just a thought.

Sent from my P6-U06 using Tapatalk

Johnny - I am going to have to do something. I have lost way more money on cashing out early, than I have on entering bad trades. Just in the last couple of days, and of the top of my head, could have doubled or more my takings on CML, OML, SOL, AWA and GND.

I seem to what to take the money and run when I actually see they money - even though I have EVERY intention of leaving it to hit it's target. There is a fear having that stock reverse, and instead of having a profit, I having a loss which I know would REALLY p me off. It's the lesser of the two evils.

It's still early days though, and still finding my groove. Found a nice site that I was reading last night - just started reading the beginner section - lot's of interesting stuff. http://www.trade2win.com/boards/first-steps/30625-i-m-new-trading-where-do-i-start.html

I still need to find out if I am heading to be a day trader or swing trader - I think, on paper, I would prefer/am suited more to the former as profit are locked in earlier and your trades are less exposed to fundamentals/ outside news. That said, I can still use the the whole day - yesterday I was in and out of SOL in under an hour.

I might try part selling trades, lock in some profit, and let the rest run - this might work. At the same time, have to really decide if this is a serious problem. Should I not just make my target, as quickly as possible, and walk away? It seems many daytraders try do exactly that and try get in and out in the first hour and a half of the opening bell, usually the most volatile time of the market. The problem is more me feeling I left some on the table (being a greedy b#@#$d) - and if get over that, there is no problem.

Yesterday I did manage to NOT place any trades for the rest of the day - it wasn't easy. In a lovely bull markets, money was being made all over the place - standing by and watching is not really my thing - the "you got to be in it to win it" force is strong with me.

Early days - will see where I develop and what my preferences are. As said, the idea of getting in and out within the first couple of hours does appeal to me - but having something to keep the juices flowing through out the day would also be nice.

BTW, if any one decides to have a play with CFD's, try run it of two monitors and use one just for graphs. I have no clue if it will work, but ordered an HDMI - serial to see if I could get three monitors running of my laptop. It really is a case of the more the better.



Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on December 24, 2015, 08:34:02 am
Yesterday I did manage to NOT place any trades for the rest of the day - it wasn't easy. In a lovely bull markets, money was being made all over the place - standing by and watching is not really my thing - the "you got to be in it to win it" force is strong with me.

I guess you can at least take solace in the fact that your main portfolio, where most of your money is, must be recovering nicely in the bull market. Keep your eye on the ball and stay disciplined. Set your targets and stick to them. Don't pay attention to whatever you lost out on. That's just all white noise distracting you. Giving into the 'what if I stayed in longer' will end up costing you more money than you will make. Don't get greedy. Get in. Make you what you wanted to make. Get out.

Or that's what the smart people say. I say f*ck it. Follow your gut.

P.S. That last part is just a joke. Please don't listen to me.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 24, 2015, 08:56:36 am
Day 4: R243.46 - total R4071.65

R71 bucks after just 4 days of work?? They GIVING money away..... :D

Bit unsure where the market will move today - will guys be taking profits? Closing longs?

I think all those sectors that got hammered could still have legs - so financials/property and retail.

The only order I have in at the moment is to short Northam - that said, as with goldfields the other day, once the market opened a little symbol comes up and you need to phone in your order. But you cannot see the symbol when the market is closed, guess i will learn which ones are telephone trades only.

New Order :
Sell 200 Northam Platinum Ltd
The margin change will be in the region of 1,330.00
The required margin will be in the region of 1,330.00
Order will execute when the offer price >= 2,660.00

Am learning about ATR - setting buy orders on both sides at 2xATR/up and 4 x ATR down from the 5 min chart using 10 periods - so at 2820 to stop and 2460 to take profit. Wow, that sounds like I might know what i am doing - do not be fooled  :LHST:

Just want to get a feel for the direction before maybe going long - otherwise might be a couple of shorts in the offering
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 24, 2015, 09:07:20 am
wow - Northam went of the charts  ???

cancelled. thought. sold 200.

hmmmm
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 24, 2015, 09:44:45 am
Yesterday I did manage to NOT place any trades for the rest of the day - it wasn't easy. In a lovely bull markets, money was being made all over the place - standing by and watching is not really my thing - the "you got to be in it to win it" force is strong with me.

I guess you can at least take solace in the fact that your main portfolio, where most of your money is, must be recovering nicely in the bull market. Keep your eye on the ball and stay disciplined. Set your targets and stick to them. Don't pay attention to whatever you lost out on. That's just all white noise distracting you. Giving into the 'what if I stayed in longer' will end up costing you more money than you will make. Don't get greedy. Get in. Make you what you wanted to make. Get out.

Or that's what the smart people say. I say f*ck it. Follow your gut.

P.S. That last part is just a joke. Please don't listen to me.

Eventually - I hope - I will have sorted out some sort of system. the nice thing is, it doesn't need to work all the time - in fact, it could probably work even being correct 40% of the time, as long as the winners where bigger than the losers - which can, of course be set with stop losses.

At the moment

Long OML, CLS and CML
short NHM

In the red at the moment - and must keep in mind it's a short trading day - do not want to carry anything over.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 24, 2015, 11:07:02 am
Very interesting morning.

So I was marginally confident on a short on Northam - but share shot up on opening, and stayed up - around 6-7% up for hour and a bit was between down between R100 - R200. Non of my long are really moving, again sold OML just a bit too quick after using ATR to set price. Squeeze a little profit from GRT R24, CML R12 and OML6 - and lost on CLS R6. But (insert drumroll here)
made a handy R356 on Northam. Biggest day and biggest trade so far.

Excellent! Very glad I stuck to my guns - also that I did not sell at break even - after the first hour would have been happy to just finish in the green - but share edged down,before making a nice steep fall. Weirdly, had set a trailing stop at 2750 - with a 5 point trailing order. What I find weird is that the price I was selling kept going a lot lower than 5 pts. Need to look into it - eventually manually sold.

Looks like I will be starting on Monday with around R4400.




Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 28, 2015, 05:59:42 am

So had quite a bit of time to read up on trading and found a fantastic site with the rather cheesy name of trade2win.com. Mainly a forum, but they have organised it very well (lot's of stickies with organised links) plus there is a large article section, one with trader profiles/interviews. Must have spent over 20 hours trawling though tons of information.

Couple of common themes. Many had a bit of early success - but then "blew up" (ie, lost everything!) their accounts. Often more than once. Mainly due to not setting stop losses and risking too much. ie poor money management. So I did think quite seriously about it. Not having a job, and never wanting to go back to work, I am going to have to be more careful than most. Now, at the very worst, if a share loose all value, I could loose 7x's the value of my account. Extremely unlikely - but I always plan for extreme's. So the amount I had wanted to have in the account (R100K) now seems way too much - because R700K vs my net worth is just too high a ratio. But that is an extreme (and highly unlikely) - I might be a bit more comfortable down the track. But will not be shuffling lot's of money into the account for quite some time. I will keep the account and trades small for quite a while - TBF, I should really be using a demo account during this learning phase.

A lot of the experienced guys are ditching indicators and just using "price action" for entering and exiting trades. I would love to be able to tell you what this PA actually means - but cannot unfortunately - will be researching it this week - but it sounds like it's all about reading the candle sticks using that to predict the future. The feeling is that RSI's, bollinger bands, MACD's ect just create noise.



Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 28, 2015, 09:02:58 am
Day 5: R339.80 total R4411.45

Finding your "edge" is and important facet of being a trader. Obviously, at this early stage, my trades are more on gut feel than any accurate reading of the charts on my part. I have no problem with that - I think it will very much be, the more I practice the luckier I get. But one thing I must start doing, is setting hard stop losses. I am naturally a cautious person, but I do enjoy a wee punt here and there -maybe the thrill of going against my nature?

Have SOL, SNH, CML and NHM all "open" but will see how the market opens before placing trades.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 28, 2015, 01:53:08 pm
gotcha - will move this diary off line.

</thread>
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: JohnnyH on December 28, 2015, 02:24:33 pm
MrD. Good luck with the trading. Will miss reading your updates! I find that, probably more than 50% of the fun/interest I have in investing &  trading, is talking and reading about it.

Best of luck!

Sent from my P6-U06 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on December 28, 2015, 02:45:14 pm
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, keep it right here...why move... :wall:  :wall:  :frustrated:
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: bushwakka on December 28, 2015, 03:37:08 pm
The 650 odd views would suggest that there are many forum members interested in your progress.

Agreed, keep it here.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Orca on December 28, 2015, 06:22:23 pm
gotcha - will move this diary off line.

</thread>
My apologies if I offended you but I really did not mean to. I was merely pointing out the fact that one must not have high expectations and it is early days yet so expect some losses as you go along.
I will delete my post if you wish and then you delete yours and carry on posting here as we all enjoy it.
Rethink your decision and I will bow out here until you restart this thread.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Nivek on December 28, 2015, 09:39:43 pm
Please keep it up to date, I think it's fascinating to follow!
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 30, 2015, 07:02:24 am
cool.

will change it slightly though - I like using more colorful language in my trade journal - so will just update this a couple of times a week with figures and my current thoughts.

Day 6: R-236.43
Day 7: R-159.11 total R4015.91

Made some appalling trades on the morning of day 6 - just seemed to want to get the money in the market. So went into the red straight away - then had to leave for the afternoon. decided to keep the trades open - but luckily they did not get worse. So next day went through all 5 open trades setting close stops on 4 - they all stopped out pretty quickly. at that point I was sitting at just under R3800.

But by the afternoon a trade on CML - had recovered as well as a trade in FSR - but lost a bit on Glencore. Also went in and out twice on the DAX. And although I didn't pick all winners - I thought they where all picked and execute fairly well.

My current thinking is: 90% of traders fail - so I really want to listen to the few that end up making it. many of the guys left standing seem to have moved to using price action alone. some might use a couple of indicators( rsi/bollinger bands, ect), but many use none at all. I am quite a fan of K.I.S.S so will be employing these principals for a bit.

I am also, at the moment, thinking that i prefer instruments that are traded frequently like the DAX - this moves at light speed compared to say CML/NPN or BTI. In an ideal world, would still like to get most of my trading done in the morning. also flirting with the idea of limiting my watchlist to just a few counters. One or two high volume get in and out counters (will i go to the darkside and check out forex) then a couple of SA companies - but then i must shown some restraint and really wait for a set up.

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 30, 2015, 04:49:07 pm
Market gave me a bit of a snot klap this morning. i was in and out the DAX - 3 or 4 times, couple of bucks here and there. I think they called contracts. anyway, started on 2, then 4. hey this is easy. let's take 8. Was trading trends up and down, but the general trend is down. When I went long 8, the market reversed about 1 minute later - so had a long in what i knew was a short market. Was down R500 at one stage, but just sat on my hands hoping for a reversal - eventually it did happen - luckily enough just as i woke from my nap. So sold out around R-100 - waited a bit and then went short - but will leave it at just 4 contracts a time.

Other than that, had a short on Sasol that worked and long on FSR which didn't - made around R70 for the day. But very happy after what could have been a pretty bad day.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 31, 2015, 07:35:11 am
Day 8: R4100.09 - R84.18

Market closes early - but will be doing the same as yesterday. trade DAX as it comes - looking at price action and trading from the 5 minute chart - i think the 1 minute might have to much "noise". Then will open a few SA equities and put in resistance/support lines and try trade between them. After a couple of bearish days, maybe today might be a bit bullish?

Otherwise will be hiding in our "office" as it's the only room with air con - yesterday hit 40c - outside CT. Tonight we will be going to the Nedeberg concert - did it last year as well. Hope everyone has a great NY - and keep your eye out for drunks on the road.

And remember. The trend is your friend, until it ends.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on December 31, 2015, 09:36:42 am
Best for u as well and every1 else on site, hope u have a good 2016  :TU:
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 31, 2015, 02:19:03 pm
I made such a small profit this morning, when I was closing the program, I swear GT247 asked if I would like to be paid in chappies.

  ;)
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 04, 2016, 09:02:16 am
DAY 9 : R4116.71 R16.62

Made my first calculation mess up on FSR - adding instead of subtracting a percent - means I got stopped out pretty much instantly - but should really use the graphs to check points. Was a very quite morning, and the DAX did not open so just a couple of little trades. Anyway, the start of a new week - a whole 5 days of trading! At last - time to scrap all these public holidays, what are us early retirees meant to do with our time???  :LHST:

Will carry on drawing support/resistance levels for just a few shares and then use price action to try spot a trend and trade the trend. Nothing fancy. With the DAX looking to scalp and with SA inc, will try daytrade. Although I will look at the 1 minute graph - decisions will be made off the 5 minute.

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: erwintwr on January 04, 2016, 10:50:17 am
maybe drop in for a quick "short" tomorrow morning?

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/economy/article-china-halts-trading-after-shares-slide-7-1261899




/ yes i am extremely bad at giving trading advice :P
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 04, 2016, 04:21:08 pm
Today was the day for shorts - not sure if it will carry on tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: gcr on January 04, 2016, 10:54:57 pm
Read the article on CNN Money and then make your own decisions- article by Heather Long titled Stock market selloff: Just how bad is it?
Interesting stats as to how low the Dow, S & P 500 and Nasdaq have to still fall before it is termed a correction or bear market
China seems to be the problem, and unfortunately our unthinking government has hooked its wagon to them along with some rather dicey other BRICs countries who have all or are on the verge of being downgraded to junk status - so we will see further falls in our markets 
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 05, 2016, 06:47:21 am
Well, for this side of things it doesn't really bother me if markets go up or down - as long as it's not flat. Of course, the bulk of my money would prefer a bull market - but on that side, do not mind a flat market as long as dividends are growing.

BTW, chatted a bit to a guy whose business is industrial property (all over as well as a few overseas) over the holidays - he is 100% let and doesn't see any problems for 2016 for letting his properties.

Will do the figures later for yesterday - but was in and out the DAX 21 times yesterday, plus forays into the ALSI and FTSE. For scalping (what a kuk word, surely there is a better term??) it seems like it might be best. Then also has positions in Sasol and FNB.

At the end of the day, decided to experiment and bought 100 oml and FSR - two shares that got hammered over 5% during the day - looking for a recovery today.

I will post figures later - but did ok sticking to the plan. Was up just over R200 at 09H45 and would have been happy walking away with that - but need screen time, so carried on. Eventually got to R450 - but then the DAX turned and I did not get my short out quick enough and it cost me - running almost into the red. But recovered a bit in the afternoon - finishing up around R200 or so.
But a good day all up - on the whole, took losses earlier and managed my money better.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 05, 2016, 07:15:49 am
Chinese market marginally up, my shares down NPN/OCE/LON, AVL up 😊, got new tablet still learning

Sent from my LenovoA3300-H using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 05, 2016, 08:35:36 am
DAY 10 R4376.68 R259.97

Thought it might be a bit higher but had quite a lot of fees. Will do the same again today - will be interesting to see where FSR and OML open. Must try use the 5m chart more than the 1m today.

JaDEB - thought of getting a tablet so I could trade on the couch - but I think I actually need to two ok sized monitors - one for the charts and one for the program. Later this evening I start a small web based course in trading - runs for a month - hope I get some good knowledge out of it.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: gcr on January 05, 2016, 09:09:31 am
DAY 10 R4376.68 R259.97

Thought it might be a bit higher but had quite a lot of fees. Will do the same again today - will be interesting to see where FSR and OML open. Must try use the 5m chart more than the 1m today.

JaDEB - thought of getting a tablet so I could trade on the couch - but I think I actually need to two ok sized monitors - one for the charts and one for the program. Later this evening I start a small web based course in trading - runs for a month - hope I get some good knowledge out of it.

I have used 2 screens on my desk top for a number of years - helps in that you can keep your portfolio open on one and use the other for reading up on articles and this site of course - works for me
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 05, 2016, 09:18:44 am
Tablet is not for couch trading, it is so u cannot enjoy a moment being away from market. U can take tablet everywhere with u... :whistle:
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 05, 2016, 10:02:27 am
ALSI is not playing ball today. 1 contract takes around half my cash - which does mean it has a serious effect if I am in it. Down over R200 today so far  :(

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 06, 2016, 05:37:54 am
@Mr_Div

Was looking at gt247.com and their fees and hoped you could clarify some things for me.

Under 'Long Funding' it says SABOR +2.5% and under 'Short Funding' it says SABOR -2.5%...What the hell is SABOR and what does the + and -2.5% mean?

Then it says 'Interest on Free Cash' is -1.24% to -5.17%. Does that mean any money that is not actively being used to trade with is being taken away at a rate between -1.24% to -5.17% a day/month/year?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 06, 2016, 07:00:36 am
Sorry Fawkes cannot really help- guess SABOR is some variable bank rate. But to give you and idea - carried over 100 FSR and 100 OML shares the other night and cost 96c and 93c - when you are short it's the opposite and you get a couple of bucks.

DAY 11 R3571.06 -R805.62  :frustrated:

Just a kuk day really. Started bad, squeezed out a tiny profit midday - then got my arse handed to me in the arvo. So a couple of lessons learn't: DOW, DAX, FTSE and to a lessor extent ALSI - kinda move as one. So if you fully invested long or short and you make a wrong call, your ass will be handed to you. pronto. I need to seriously read up about chart analysis - will be concentrating on this for the rest of the week. From now on, I will stop trading when I am happy with the day - then switch to my demo account. Will also only use one index at at a time - probably the DAX.

Oh well, live and learn hey?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 06, 2016, 07:41:11 am
Have you ever tried giving those guys that Orca recommended at traderscorner.co.za a try?

They will email you every day to tell you what to buy and what to short and so on. They have a one month trial account for R329. It seems steep but I mean if their tips can help you make thousands of Rands a month it will be well worth it.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 06, 2016, 10:00:08 am
Opened gt247 practice account, invalid username. Ffs they never asked user name

Sent from my LenovoA3300-H using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 06, 2016, 12:40:44 pm
Really messed up this morning and was R600 down at one point - then did what you not meant to and added, and then added again to my position - it did turn in my favor, rode it down and now exited at R100 up.

So will an eye on the DAX - but until i am back above R4000, will just enter on 2 units at a time

Fawkes - really want to learn the in's and outs and am prepared to put in the time - 100's of hours if need be. Not working has plenty of advantages!

JaDEB - hope you get it sorted - it is, as you know, quite a dangerous way to play with stocks.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: JohnnyH on January 06, 2016, 03:45:49 pm
MrD, which online course are you doing? Also interested in this.

Sent from my P6-U06 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 06, 2016, 04:09:07 pm
http://www.shawacademy.com/trading/course-details.html

But do not pay that price.!!!!!!!

On daddydeals.co.za it was R19 and groupon had it for R99 - so would just wait awhile and see when it pops back on. Seems like they only do it once a month.

Guys are chatting about it here

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/787409-The-Shaw-Academy-Diploma-in-Financial-Training
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 07, 2016, 05:36:50 am
I am also looking at opening a demo account at GT247 and just wonder about the difference between EQ Trader and Future Trader.

https://www.gt247.com/OnlineTradingHome/CFDs/AssistedTradingOLD/DemoAccount/tabid/445/Default.aspx

"EQ Trader gives you access to all of South Africa's finest stocks as well as major international markets to trade CFD currencies, commodities and indices."

If it gives access to indices does it mean you cannot trade individual shares?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 07, 2016, 06:11:10 am
Did not really look into it much - thought "future trader" was more about FOREX so went with EQ Trader as I figures I would be more into Equities.

Yesterday I did 19 trades in the DAX and one each on the DOW and Hangsen. Basically rushed into two pathetic trades on the dow and hangsen at about 07H00 - I think I was just excited that I did not have to wait till 09H00 for the DAX to open. Walked away R150 down and kicking myself 15 minutes later. I really have to fight my impulsive nature. So at 09H00 went the wrong way on the DAX just after opening on 4 short contracts, started loosing. But I did think it would turn south with the help of some TA, so went short another and then another a bit later. At the peak was down about R600+ and my account dropped below R3000 - not good. But it did turn, but was trying to use my head and sold (bought) 8 when I was even and the other 4 shortly after that.

I then went down to two contracts and spent the afternoon in and out of trends with mixed success and little financial gain - but was pretty happy overall with the day. That said, I guess as I become more knowledgeable I guess my trades will spend more time in the market and scalping will not happen as much.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 07, 2016, 09:16:39 am
DAY 12 R3720.06 R149

Lately, my first trades have been dogs and then have had to fight back (or in Day 11, not) - for once I would like to start on a win straight away. So no rushing in, staying just on the DAX, start with 2 contracts but will move to 4 once I am comfortable. Then I also want to look at some equities and try identify trends for more day/swing trades - just the bigger guys, NPN, BTI, FSR
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 07, 2016, 11:23:07 am
So far doing well on my start well end well campaign! Decided to take more a longer term trade on 15 Sol - shorted at 38403 - with the idea of buying in at 37272 - another level. Hit that within the 2 hours... oh well - will take the R170 and try find something else for a longer term trade.

Have modified my trading om the DAX a bit - basically buy smaller amounts more often - generally works well, got caught once. But up around R500 on the DAX sofar - will probably take a break, but tentatively would like to double that today.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Nivek on January 07, 2016, 02:39:06 pm
Do this years market gymnastics make it easier or harder for you?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 07, 2016, 04:22:59 pm
Hard to say- was doing very well until about an hour ago... ??? But I think the general consensus the more volatile the market, the better - you just better pick correctly which way it's going to move.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 07, 2016, 06:40:05 pm
What a @#$%$# day. >:(

Did very well in the morning, followed the trends well - just stuck on the DAX - was up over R1000. Afternoon session - not so good.  :wall:

On the bright side there will still be a little bit in there to play with tomorrow - but not much.

I guess, on hindsight - my "system" was working - money was coming in fairly easily. When I was up R500, trends that went against me where fairly easy to absorb - but a massive spike the wrong way had me "doubling down" instead of taking a step back and reevaluating the situation.

Damn - was really looking forward to hitting the R5k mark - I doubt I'll have half that.

Live and learn, eh?  :(
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 08, 2016, 05:06:46 am
DAY13 R2383.84 -R1336.22

So printed out and relooked at want went wrong yesterday.

Firstly, the good.

I did see over a thousand gain at one time - but, was using ALL my margin - so was playing with fire. Big risk, big reward, big losses.
Did a very nice sasol trade that went perfectly according to plan - shorted then bought of a resistance level.
I was almost expect the my first account to be "blown" - bright side Is I get to live for another day
Buying/ selling in small increments did work on the scalping side.


The bad.
I was shorting an up trend.
Did not have a pre conceived stop loss - had I pulled out fairly early, I might have been able to travel the wave upwards and replace my losses
I did not know when the DAX (CFD) closes - so it was still running @ 20H15 last night - at that it had finally come down to my buy in area so could have exited with minimum losses had I waited - I did not want to be stuck with such a large position over night.
The first big move up really took me by surprise. Although I cannot be ready for them, I really need to plan for them.

The plan
I need to set stops and limit when entering a trade. Bit hard while scalping - work it of the profit loss column on a percentage basis?
I need to devise an IRON clad rule on how much I can risk per instrument - maybe 1/4 of margin at the moment.
Need to really FOLLOW the overall trend. I am getting caught out looking for reversals
Need to look for more swing type trades.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 09, 2016, 06:50:54 am
DAX smacked me again yesterday - will on fill in figures once I open on Monday and have some open positions - but lost around R500. Did go small, but it was death of a thousand paper cuts - just could not get into the grove. But I really should probably not be trying to scalp an index so volatile as the DAX, TBO - it's just so exciting...  :D

have shorts out on Sasol and a long on CML. I now print out a graph, draw my trends and channels and then take my position. See If I can get the last R2000 to last next week!

BTW, the money does not bother me too much, it would not surprise me I do loose a good R20K or so. As long as by the end I have learn't a truck load and am  seeing a marked improvement in my trading. This is just school fees. I know I could be using a demo account - but I really do take things more seriously when my money is in it, no mater how small the amount.

But going to change tack for next week. Basically looking at graphs one by one, picking the most likely and trading one by one. As to the weekend, planning to get a few hours studying here: http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.php?id=chart_school
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 11, 2016, 05:10:44 am
Day 14 R1817.14 - R566.70

New week, new plan!

Knowledge has increased a lot since I first begun - still only scratched the surface. At the start, I did not even know what questions to ask, now I am starting to know what questions to ask as well as finding some of the answers.

I do not expect to do many trades this week -the idea is to stop looking at the 1 minute and only use the 5 minute for entering and exiting if at all. Looking for channels, reversals and trends confirmed through price action but will also use the RSI. Want to set stops and limits as i enter a trade.

And I really need to watch and stick to stops AND let them run to the limits even if I part sell to bank profits. No quick one click orders - all buying and selling through the order form with thought out entry points.

BTW a nice site that lists events that could effect the global market ( think global SENS)  :) http://www.forexfactory.com/calendar.php you can change the time at the top without having to make an account.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 12, 2016, 06:04:43 am
Mr_Div sorry to bother you with this. But once you closed the EQ Trader window how do you open it up again? I thought after it was installed there will be a shortcut on my desktop but there is nothing. So I went to GT247 website and logged in but I don't see anything there for reopening the trading platform window?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 12, 2016, 06:48:04 am
Had me stumped for a bit to - go read the instructions again - you actually need to go into java and then make a short cut.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 12, 2016, 07:37:13 am
I'm such a dumb ass. I remember reading one of your earliest posts about this. Thanx. Got it set up.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 12, 2016, 07:54:59 am
This is the reply I got from GT247, after trying to join and set up, no, ok we will help you. They can go F T S.

Good Day Mr X,

 

Please note that your account was deactivated and that is the reason why you are unable to login.

 

Regards

 

Londiwe Mbatha
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 12, 2016, 08:15:25 am
Yeah. I have to say if you want real help from them you need to phone. Their email customer service sucks. Wrote to them last week enquiring about something and the very Londiwe Mbatha replied to me with a very generic response that did not answer a single question I asked. Want help. Call. Don't write to them.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 12, 2016, 09:06:17 am
DAY 15 R1669.96 -R147.18

Will carry on doing the same - being a bit more selective in my trades. Lost 3 out of 4 yesterday - 3 where carried over.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 12, 2016, 10:15:20 am
Right - entered long into EOH @ 12468 with a stop at 2 x AVT (11282) take profit @ 4 x AVT (14840) Due to clear Hammer with confirmation, Low RSI (36 on daily) and good FA news today. Think trade feels right - so will hang on and hope it works depending on time frame, might only sell out half at target.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 12, 2016, 10:24:56 am
I fink EOH is a good call.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 13, 2016, 08:47:08 am
Day 16 R1771.19 R101.23

Well, broke a three day loosing streak, so that's good. Will be holding on to the EOH position for a while (few weeks I am guessing) so might top up the account with a couple of thousand. R100 was made up of the long on EOH and a short on Grindrod I had for a couple of days and it hit it's limit. Will be looking for another couple of swing trades.

Jadeb - the only other options for CFD's seem to be quite pricey, IG has a R100 minimum not sure about PSG and Std, but I am guessing the same - the 0.1% no min cost's on GT247 makes it (on my budget) a no brainer. Just open a new demo with a different email.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 13, 2016, 09:10:40 am
Thanks, I will have a look. but GT247 can stick it where the sun does not shine, next to LON. After 3 mails still unhelpful. I need to look at 1 where I can use on my tablet for trading.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 13, 2016, 09:29:16 am
Mr_Div, first of all if I'm hassling you with my questions feel free to tell me to sod off.

But with that said...once I bought something how do I set a stop loss? In other words I want to set an order where it needs to sell once it reaches a certain price (for a profit) but also a stop loss to make sure I do not lose too much if it goes south. How do I do that? Just place two different orders?

@jaDEB - That's why I am giving GT247 another shot even though their email correspondence sucks! Their fees. For the small amounts of money I wanna trade the R100 minimum fee over at IG just would not make it worth it.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 13, 2016, 09:58:39 am
First watch this explains it all, but not very well. I am sure there would be a better way to set up the order form - it irritates me that the words "stop loss" do not appear! Limit is where you would take profit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFh40uAFJH8

That said, I am also trying to get feed back from them on this very issue - not impressed with the site as some very boring aspects are explained to death - but something so important as placing orders are not explained well at all.

Until I know more, I am placing them separately.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 13, 2016, 10:28:10 am
Short shoprite. entered 13605 - limit 12837 and stop 13989. 1 hr shows a hanging man, RSI above 60 and nearing upper channel line. Although nothing concrete, I think this has a 60% chance of playing out.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 13, 2016, 11:08:45 am
just registered Demo account with IG, got R1,000,000 rants, used R15,000 long JSE thingy.....starting to learn
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 13, 2016, 11:16:14 am
If you want to learn the basics of candle sticks - take a look here http://www.tradersclass.net/downloads/candlestickbook.pdf - then go onto the DAX and start playing on the 1 and 5 minute graphs. Good fun - and with money, no reason to go to a casino ever again  :))
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 13, 2016, 12:10:29 pm
Cool Spend +/- R35,000. (Demo account - Not Real Monies)

Long - JSE, NPN, MTN
Short - ACL

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 13, 2016, 01:05:17 pm
 :wtf:

My ACL is gone.....  :wall:
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 13, 2016, 02:11:44 pm
Thanks  >:( uck I did no use real money......
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Moneypenny on January 13, 2016, 02:32:15 pm
OMW Mr D :D, you can at least last three to four months with R25 000 on CFD's when trading companies. 

R25 000 on ALSI, I'll predict a week for any newbie before getting a margin call.

I like this thread, good idea, keep it up.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 13, 2016, 03:31:10 pm
Ok, Mr D. Did u see my pant? I think I lost it.......

So
 
S = Stoploss, kicks out to when u hit u stoploss
L = Limit, it kicks out when u made enough profit.

 
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 13, 2016, 04:18:50 pm
Ok, Mr D. Did u see my pant? I think I lost it.......

So
 
S = Stoploss, kicks out to when u hit u stoploss
L = Limit, it kicks out when u made enough profit.

I am trying to set both a stop loss and a limit when I enter - obviously, the stop loss (break order) makes sense. The limit is to stop me taking out too early - which seems to be very common with us noobs. There is a PDF manual on the EQ platform - pg 21 deals with trades. Does not mention everything though - have printed it out and plan to go through it when next i place an order.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 13, 2016, 04:41:28 pm
Apologies for posting so often on your thread .  :whistle:

I started with R1,000,000.00 (demo - Not real) - got R942,784.00 left.

Long : NPN, LON, MTN, ACL
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 13, 2016, 04:55:07 pm
Have you started analysis charts and using technical indicators?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 13, 2016, 05:24:48 pm
Have you started analysis charts and using technical indicators?

No, first learning the basics.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 14, 2016, 07:45:09 am
Day 17 R1781.02 R9.83

Quite days yesterday - I did feel I had gotten into the Shoprite short a bit early, and that did prove correct, increasing slightly, hitting the trend line and only reversing a bit at the end of the day. EOH was pretty flat for most of the day. Will not be changing ether and hope they hit  their limits rather than their stops! I have transferred another R2000, has not shown up but will start looking at a few more trades. Great that you can make these tiny trades with GT.

On a side note. The charting software is ok, the drawing tools are pants though. So looked at the graphing tools on my ABSA account. Eish, terrible. The smallest period you can go to is one day!! With GT you can go to "ticker" so you can watch every move! One thing GT does not have, have no clue why, is volume. Or have I just not found it, or a very good TA tools that shows it? Any ideas?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 14, 2016, 07:56:05 am
Shanghai Composite Index

Shanghai Composite Index now positive ....  :)

2,974.10

Change

+27.09 +0.92%

was negative milliseconds ago...



Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 14, 2016, 10:04:08 am
Long Discovery - hopefully in and out fairly quickly from being oversold - have halved the stop and limit. Multiple hammers and engulfing on the 5 min. Entered 11754, stop 11678 and limit 11906. EOH position is hurting me at the moment - now lower than entered. The shoprite short though, is working.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 14, 2016, 10:24:12 am
Long

ACL
NPN x 2
OCE
LON x 2
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: gcr on January 14, 2016, 10:44:52 am
Mr Divi - don't know whether you read/view Dr Clive Roffey's reviews - but last night I decided I would have a belly full of laughs, and wasn't disappointed - just watch his last review of December 7th - he was predicting that the ALSI would drop significantly with heads and shoulders all over the place the mining stock as usual all had reverse heads and shoulders. He knocked Woolworths Discovery Massmart and a number of others yet today Woolies and Massmart brought out what I consider (given the economic climate, and the debt trapped citizens) very pleasing results. Strangely enough Massmart has been stricken with investor expectations which are totally unreasonable given our countries and citizens financial challenges.
But if anyone wants a laugh watch his review just google Clive Roffey and have some fun
Then take a contrary position as to what he is saying - also it make help in making decisions around what charts tell you, and how wide open they are to different interpretations
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 14, 2016, 11:16:42 am
Long

ACL
NPN x 2
OCE
LON x 2

FikKIn iDIot
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 14, 2016, 12:03:14 pm
Mr Divi - don't know whether you read/view Dr Clive Roffey's reviews - but last night I decided I would have a belly full of laughs, and wasn't disappointed - just watch his last review of December 7th - he was predicting that the ALSI would drop significantly with heads and shoulders all over the place the mining stock as usual all had reverse heads and shoulders. He knocked Woolworths Discovery Massmart and a number of others yet today Woolies and Massmart brought out what I consider (given the economic climate, and the debt trapped citizens) very pleasing results. Strangely enough Massmart has been stricken with investor expectations which are totally unreasonable given our countries and citizens financial challenges.
But if anyone wants a laugh watch his review just google Clive Roffey and have some fun
Then take a contrary position as to what he is saying - also it make help in making decisions around what charts tell you, and how wide open they are to different interpretations

I have always avoided the Roffey Review as well as Traders Corner as they where just gibberish to me - but am planning to start trying to catch them and see where they both are coming from - with clive, I can always learn how not to do things hey? :) I do get your point on TA - I really do treat the whole TA as being able to better make an (the more I learn, the more) educated guess - you could have 10 signs saying to go long, it is still, always, going to be a guess. So, as important, will be money management.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 14, 2016, 12:36:49 pm
OMG. The GT247 platform is SOOOO frustrating.

On Tuesday I open an order clearly stating to only buy a certain share if it is trading equal to or above 36.20. The order goes through immediately and buys at 36.06!!! How is that equal to or above 36.20?????

Then today I fill out three orders to only sell 3 different shares if each of them are equal to or above a certain price. It immediately closes all three those positions at prices lower than I stated! Thank god this is only a demo account because this crappy platform would have lost me a lot of money!!!
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 14, 2016, 12:54:46 pm
I am doing Demo account on IG, using tablet. But is still learning.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 14, 2016, 01:42:02 pm
OMG. The GT247 platform is SOOOO frustrating.

On Tuesday I open an order clearly stating to only buy a certain share if it is trading equal to or above 36.20. The order goes through immediately and buys at 36.06!!! How is that equal to or above 36.20?????

Then today I fill out three orders to only sell 3 different shares if each of them are equal to or above a certain price. It immediately closes all three those positions at prices lower than I stated! Thank god this is only a demo account because this crappy platform would have lost me a lot of money!!!

It was my mistake. On FNB Investor when you want to buy or sell you have to indicate the price as Rands and cents. That is what I did on the GT247 platform where they only take it as cents. So when I put 36.20 it took it as 36.20 cents and not as R36.20.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 14, 2016, 02:04:30 pm
 :D wow, that could have been expensive!

BTW - FNB is in the wrong, prices on the JSE should always be in cents
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 14, 2016, 03:47:10 pm
 :wall:
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 14, 2016, 05:47:34 pm
:D wow, that could have been expensive!

BTW - FNB is in the wrong, prices on the JSE should always be in cents

Yeah. But I think FNB's investing platform is very much geared towards beginners such as myself. It is a very basic platform that is easy to use and wrap your head around. So maybe that is why they indicate it in Rands and cents. It is not meant for the serious trader.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 14, 2016, 06:05:24 pm
Dear Mr Div,

Been thinking, say you Longed African Bank R6.00c for a value of R5000.00, you put the stoploss 10% down, say at R5.40c, but it crashes right pass your SL and stops at say R0.32c

You would owe them money, correct? Lots, frikken lots?

Regards

jaDEB - your student
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 14, 2016, 08:21:13 pm
Well, young grasshopper, you would be right - that would cost you a bit, and probably wipe you out.

That said, is it likely?

When you set your stop loss, it's greater than or less than a number - so I am not sure you can miss it. Might not be completed at the exact amount specified though.

Operator error, sure, that could happen.

But you are mean't to have good money management - seems the accepted norm is not risk loosing more than 2% in any one trade. I also think you need to keep in the back of your mind what your total loss would be - roughly (for most JSE CFD's) your margin x 7 or so. Margin requirements varies quite a bit anything from 12- 25% depending on liquidity/risk it seems.

BTW - your example was for a long  - at least there is a limit when the share is worth 0%. There are no limit's for shorts ???






Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 15, 2016, 08:53:23 am
DAY 18 R1655.89 -R125.13

Lost a little on DSY - no probs hit the lowered SL. The EOH gave up all it's gains - I might have mixed my FA with my TA's on that one - I am expecting to hold it for weeks to a month - but I am thinking that it is very likely that it could hit it's stop loss in that time. The shoprite one is fine as at least it is with the trend. I seem to want to constantly pick reversals, and am not proving to be all that good at it  :-[ Time to find a trade that goes with the trend. A long on one of the gold miners might work - or has that ship sailed?

The wind is howling down here in the Cape - messing with my ADSL - so not sure if I will be doing any trading to day.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Moneypenny on January 15, 2016, 09:38:13 am
Re stop losses:  I've lost huge amounts when putting my s/l so far out that it would be almost impossible to trigger - guess what - some mysterious 'spike' picked it up and within seconds went right back to where it was previously, first time I'm thinking bad luck, second time - say what! - started to notice a trend, my s/l was always the high or low point for a stock on a specific day and then yes, you've guessed it - right back to where it traded. :mad: 

Not cool, but that was my experience - make of that what you will.

I've learned it is better to fly under the radar when dealing with market makers, don't deposit huge amounts in your trading acc (it is as if you get a designated employee on the other side, watching your every move) - paranoid much?  Not so sure. A lot of traders use different market makers exactly for this reason - don't stand out, blend baby, blend.

Hopefully my mistakes will keep you for making them too, a silver lining for me.  :)
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 15, 2016, 10:18:48 am
Cheers for that. At the moment I am setting the stop loss at 2 x ATR and limit @ 4 x ATR for most, rightly or wrongly at least this is a "system" that I can beginning using I am sure I will change or modify it in the future - I'll halve both if it's more of a punt. I have seen the those spikes - as yet it hasn't triggered my stops yet - or a limit. How do you now set your stops?

It'll be a long, LONG time before any of my trades get noticed by GT247 employees or any others - it really is Chappies money  :LHST:

Place a small short with BHP - more preempting than anything else, but at least following the downward trend and reversing the daily uptrend.

In at 15278, SL 15576 and limit @ 14682 ##


## stop was triggered at around 11h00 - had moved it up slightly as I felt it was time I actually had a win  ;)

Think it might be worth looking at and exit point for EOH - using a FA pointing towards a TU in the future was probably incorrect, I should be trading the chart as it stands. In the course I am doing they say SAT - See, Accept and Trade.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 17, 2016, 03:11:42 pm
Just went and had a very quick look at IG's offering - through sharnet. Wow. It really is on another level to GT isn't it? Alerts, way better charting software and an order form that actually has the word "stop" on it  :D

Probably take me a while, but hopefully will be doing sizes in the future that would allow me to take the step up.

## and show volume! Seriously, that's kinda important!

in fairness, it really is great that GT has such a low price with no minimum - and expecting it to be the same as others costing multiples more (in small trades anyway) is foolish. Maybe GT could offer a slightly better offering (better charting with alerts and volume) at a slightly higher price point?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 18, 2016, 07:10:27 am
DAY 19 R3806.09 R150.02 (added R2000)

Although I had a small loss for the week, in daily terms I had 3 winning days vs 2 loosing ones. Generally went pretty well - staying out the indices help - although it does bring the excitement level down, a good thing! On friday had a good trade on BHP that pretty much hit it's limit early on, then my long on EOH carried on loosing and my short on Shoprite carried on winning. In the last couple of hours I stuffed up an went for a long on Firstrand which got stopped out. Pity, as I gave back half the gains on my BHP trade.

This weeks i plan to carry on trying to trade with the major trend. But will be looking at Mrp this morning as I think it was oversold on friday - so might go long for the day on a small position.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 18, 2016, 07:49:43 am
Mr P
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 18, 2016, 09:15:05 am
Mrp entered 15997 stop 15753 limit (for half) 16485. Whats wrong about this trade? Opposite to trend and going in on FA not TA - we will see  :whistle: My trading, for the next couple of weeks, will have to revolve around the ozzie open...
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Moneypenny on January 18, 2016, 09:39:10 am
How do you now set your stops?

I don't, BUT I'm in and out in a flash - you have to babysit if you want to do this - would not recommend it though.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 18, 2016, 10:35:39 am
Tried the scalping thing with the DAX - left me battered and bruised... :D

Mrp trade working well - have hit the first limit and sold half - now have moved the stop on the remainder to cost plus 2x atr (16421) and moved the limit on the remainder out another 2 x AtR for 6 in total - 16729.

## the new stop was hit for the remainder, so am out.

With the trend - short whl
enterd 9123 stop 9321 limit 8727
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 18, 2016, 11:12:37 am
Busy with Demo Account. It gives u R1,000,000.00, I will ratio it down to R10,000.00

This confuses the crap out of me. Closed NPN long the morning (Below is before and After)

Funds :                    R8,612              R 9,425
Margin:                    R5,687              R 2,920
Running P&L :           R 544                R 414
Available Funds :       R3,410              R 6,098

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 18, 2016, 04:33:45 pm
Shoprite hit it's limit. WHL almost hit - decided to buy just before as I did not want to have the position open during the night - got 8875 - happy with that. Closed the EOH position at even - think I made a mistake using FA for an event only happening in a month. But a decent day at last  and out of all positions. Seemed to have time the long on MRP one quite well - tanked after I sold it.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 19, 2016, 08:58:19 am
@Mr_Div

How do you know what the margin is before you make a trade? With every trade I want to spend a certain amount of money but then I usually end up spending a lot more because of the margin. So is there a way to know what the margin will be before I make the trade so that I can see how many shares exactly I can buy or sell with the allotted money?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 19, 2016, 08:58:57 am
DAY 20 R4175.90 R369.81

Best day so far. To be fair though, the EOH position had lost and was only recouping it's losses. Will just try stay in the black for the rest of the week. Would like to learn some basic set ups this week.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 19, 2016, 09:02:30 am
@Mr_Div

How do you know what the margin is before you make a trade? With every trade I want to spend a certain amount of money but then I usually end up spending a lot more because of the margin. So is there a way to know what the margin will be before I make the trade so that I can see how many shares exactly I can buy or sell with the allotted money?

There probably is a list - but you should only think of margin as a place holder - it means nothing in the trade itself. Rather work on amount of shares x entry price and shares x exit price. Remember, the commission and (I think) interest is also worked out this way - not on margin.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 20, 2016, 08:27:04 am
Day 21 R4244.32 R68.42

Some pretty aimless trading at the start (somehow forgot there was tennis on) - then decided to short Anglo and Glencore (why do both?) after the both had made good gains. The gains kept on coming and was almost R500 in the red at one point. They turned and starting coming down and I doubled up on Anglo with the idea of taking that part out ASAP, which i did - let the rest ride till just before closing and ended up with a good profit on Anglo and Glencore even. Very happy with the end result. Need to be way more selective.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 20, 2016, 08:50:16 am
Day 21 R4244.32 R68.42

Some pretty aimless trading at the start (somehow forgot there was tennis on) - then decided to short Anglo and Glencore (why do both?) after the both had made good gains. The gains kept on coming and was almost R500 in the red at one point. They turned and starting coming down and I doubled up on Anglo with the idea of taking that part out ASAP, which i did - let the rest ride till just before closing and ended up with a good profit on Anglo and Glencore even. Very happy with the end result. Need to be way more selective.

 :TU:
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 20, 2016, 10:10:01 am
10 minutes or so after market drop, I longed the following

ACL
NPN
LON
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 20, 2016, 10:38:03 am
Long on Lon? Not a fan of the saying "the trend is your friend" are you?  ;D

Have a short on anglo and a long on intu - both small. Might add to anglo and try ride down from R54 - R53
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 20, 2016, 02:35:26 pm
Hmm, just got excited and spotted a descending wedge, placed sell and buy orders above and below. was surprised to see the above (buy) order triggered. Have set stops - but thinking about it I did this of the 5min chart! oops. it does show up in the 15Min - so will let is see where it goes...got in at 11400 @ 14H15
(https://mytinyurbanfarm.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/dsy_20-01-16.jpg?w=680)

15H26 sold half at 11500, to bank profits and the trade was a bit big
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 21, 2016, 06:08:10 am
DAY 22 R4345.57 R101.25

Have help two position overnight - a long on OML and on INTU. Was very happy to find the descending wedge and then for it to work - even if only slightly, did not really exit very well from it. At the moment I seem to be more interested in having positive days than i am about the amount. I have this idea that if I can build constant profit for 3 month or so, I could just increase everything by 10 without a sweat. Show me the money!  ;)

My other accounts, like everyone's, look pretty bad - if it wasn't for my capitec profits on the main one I think it would now be in the red. Now, of course, would be a good time to tweek it if needed. But overall I like it and it's doing it's job so will let sleeping dogs lie.

Random thought. Why hasn't the world language experts come up with a "world second language" - basically, make up an extremely easy to learn language that takes the best out of all languages. Everyone then learns this as their second language and boom - everyone can now talk to everyone else. I got onto this realizing that all deaf people around the world can communicate with each other using international sign language. I do not think it would be hard ether. Make the language then give it a certain amount of time, like 2 -3 years, and say it will be the defacto language at the UN - you cannot speak it, you cannot participate. From there it would just filter down.

At the moment, while watching tennis, am in a short brent sea oil, looks like it broke through resistance on a head and shoulders. Gives me something to do.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: TheKwok on January 21, 2016, 08:29:03 am
Your universal language is a good idea in theory but not so easy to implement in practice...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto)
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 21, 2016, 09:23:33 am
Your univer
sal language is a good idea in theory but not so easy to implement in practice...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto)

Very interesting, cheers. Ja, would need to be "forced" on a high level multi cultural organization - I said the UN, I see at the time they were hoping the League of Nations would pick it up.

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: TheKwok on January 21, 2016, 02:07:23 pm
I guess the problem is that language and culture are tightly linked.... and besides there is not a language in the world which has an equivalent word for lekker :-P
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 22, 2016, 06:25:50 am
DAY 23 R3982.69 R-362.88

Struggled with lots of smaller trades including the two I had overnight. I found the one that I just "let run" all hit their stops and the only trade that I was making money was on scalping Anglo. Did I good job from 12 or so running up to a peak, the selling down to a trough and reversing. Then came the end of the day. I am in two minds about where I am now sitting, with 500 shares, short. I know I have risked too much and it's really bad risk management. But am quietly confident it will retract looking at the last few weeks. If it doesn't there is a good chance I will say goodbye to about 1/4 of my account - way too much to be risking. This my "betting" side I need to keep a lid on.

Anyway, as is I am still slightly up on the week - so in percentage terms, my best performing account! - but was hoping for green everyday - and did give it some thought when I was R200 up, probably R100 after fees. But this felt right...which probably means I am going to see my ass  :frustrated:

i am open to using more predictable instruments and am playing with FX cfd's at the moment. TBO I do not have enough margin to buy even one brent oil contract but have enough for two AUD/UD contracts! Keeps me busy while watching tennis.

08H50 - I am pretty sure the phrase "tata ma chance, tata ma million" is not what a good trader would be thinking before opening bell... :(

did I say 1/4? I meant 1/2  ???


Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: gcr on January 22, 2016, 09:59:32 am
Mr-Dividend - just a question really.
Do you regularly look at the London Stock Exchange and the Dow to see their direction? Also it is worthwhile looking at the Tokyo stock exchange.

What I am suggesting is that you take a helicopter view of these exchanges and then make your decision regarding going long or short on the JSE - may just help
There used to be an excellent site page 88 which was frequented by traders sitting in different parts of the world who used to comment on the likely direction of world markets and all of the contributors where traders either working for financial institutions, companies, or for themselves. Even they got it wrong sometimes, but the essence was that they read the market
Pity they are no longer in existence with many having moved sites
Just my thoughts - may help in limiting your losses
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 22, 2016, 10:44:59 am
Yes gcr, it was something I had put on my todo list -  a spread sheet comparing the varies indices to how the ALSI acts during the day.

ah well, live and learn hey ?



Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 22, 2016, 10:50:46 am
also ,

  S&P 500 Futures 1,950.75 +17.75 +0.92%   
  Nasdaq Futures 4,333.75 +44.50 +1.04%
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 22, 2016, 11:18:01 am
BTW jadeb - my stop was blow through - was set at 5745 but only got filled @ 5957 R2 x 500 - that's R1000 bucks right there. I do not blame GT for that though - that's just the way it works sometimes - it's not a guaranteed stop.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 25, 2016, 06:34:28 am
Day 24 R1358.99 R-2623.7  ???

Well. another expensive lesson! On the bright side, at least I knew I was taking a chance this time and felt very uncomfortable - hell, maybe next time I won't actually get myself in to the situation in the first place. Shockingly bad risk management. But the weekend gave me a good chance to think and reevaluate just what I am doing and what I want to achieve.

One identified problem has been lack of a trading plan. So for the first time, spent a few hours running over a very simple plan that works on paper - have done a bit of testing and it seems to work even after including commission and some slippage - but slippage and timing will be the problem.

My wife and myself are have also had a chat over our future plans and we are in agreement that we want to do some serious traveling for a few years in 5 years time as well as leave SA - nether of us being very optimistic about it's future. Anyway, the plan can work in a few different ways, but it would work best if we can earn while on the road -  (sorry, earn while sitting at our balcony looking over the South China Sea sipping a Chai Latt,   :D)  - luckily enough, many of the counties we want to visit do not require a visa for Saffers - so that's handy.

Monday:: Anglo 5180 - so, IF I had hung in, instead of loosing around R2500, would have made around R1000 if I waited a couple of days. A lot of this is about position sizing.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 26, 2016, 06:33:34 am
DAY 25 R1435.63 R76.64

Basically, will probably have not much to say for a while. Will be sticking to this plan for a couple of weeks and seeing if it works and how it could be improved. I expect trades to take days or weeks to complete. Good thing is I have to wait for actual triggers before entering and exiting a trade - so no more taking "educated" guesses.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 27, 2016, 05:07:58 am
DAY 26 R1330.17 R-105.46

Getting tired of watching winning trades turn into loosing trades. Have given some thought into not only how I size my positions but also how I set my limits and stops.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Fawkes85 on January 27, 2016, 05:58:53 am
Mr_Div you ever experienced an issue where they won't let you buy more 1 share of a company? Everything was fine until Thursday last week when I tried to buy some AdaptIT and it went on about not being allowed to buy more than the allotted shares of an instrument or something of that sort. So I thought it is just with AdaptIT. Yesterday tried shorting another company and again, will only let me do one share.

Don't get it. Got more than enough fake money in my pretend account and don't have any other trades open.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 27, 2016, 06:55:51 am
Going out on a limb - but some shares I cannot order through the website, I need to phone in - not sure about adapt, but definitely kumba and lonmin. If adapt is the same, then it's a programming issue when they convert from real to simulated. Just a guess though.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 27, 2016, 02:53:49 pm
I have been doing the Demo account now for about 2 weeks, they are ending it today I think. Closing it.

Here is my comments:

If I scale it down to my planned action I started with R5000, and ended with R5541.

Pros

1. It is exiting
2. Have access to live pricing
3. Software is good, for use on tablet, thus very portable

Cons

1. It takes my focus of my portfolio, which is much more important.
2. Although I am positive, They seem to make more money than me.
3. U have to be 100% committed, cannot afford to take a break.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 28, 2016, 05:53:46 am
Day 27 R1260.61 R-69.56

The whole money management/ trade sizing topic finally clicked with me yesterday. At last. I am pretty sure the big loses will now be a thing of the past. Now I just need a simple trade set up that works. Will be starting a new one this morning - have decided to daytrade for a while on 1:1 profit/risk ratio on very small limit and stops. See if I can "work" the trades.

JaDEB

Ja, I think you need to go in with a very different attitude to normal shares - mainly because of the leverage. Everything is "magnified" by 7/8 - especially the losses! And although I feel everyone should have money in shares - I think CFD's (and technical analysis) need to be treated like you would a fairly serious (and expensive) hobby.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 29, 2016, 06:57:13 am
Day 28 R-5496.94 R503.06 R-757.55 (BTW changing the way i start the day with a new amount, total loss to date - makes it easier)

Had one last short on my "trading by the seat of my pants non system" - that managed to turn from a slight win to a pretty bad loss. Oh well, shouldn't happen from here on in. Watch it loose money all day, but decided to let it run and only sell before closing as I have seen the share turn at very sharply at the end of the day. Eventually, at 16H24, had enough and sold - @ 16H25 - a whole minute later it started a large fall that would have save me R200 in 10 minutes.  :D Actual went on to another account to check the graph as it really felt like as soon as I sold out (actually bought) the trade, it instantaneously started to work in my favor (naturally I thought that ether GT247 or the big investment companies where out to get me - I mean, we talking hundreds of rands  :D) - and this was a trade I had held for 3 days or so.

 Have transferred another R4000 in to start of February. But have learn't a lot in January - I am not sure if I would have anymore luck in picking whether to short or long a share - but I think I have cracked the not losing a fortune on a single trade part - I now just need to not string a 100 or so losing trades together and I should have some money in my account at the end of February. I think I can safely say there will be no "topping up" of the account this month.

I really need to start getting my win/loss ratio up - at least up to 1:1 on a risk/reward of 1:1 - although I will still be losing because of fee's and commissions. I do feel once I can get there, I can then work on increasing the reward/ decreasing the risk OR increasing the win ratio slightly. But baby steps, hey?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 29, 2016, 07:17:42 am
Hang in there and do not stop posting  :TU:.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 29, 2016, 07:35:34 am
Hang in there and do not stop posting  :TU:.

I think, at the very least, I take comfort in knowing that a handful of people get a good giggle first thing in the morning with their coffee. I'm nice like that.  ;D
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Nivek on January 29, 2016, 10:34:54 am
Good to see you back 2013 champ :)

I'm going on a different view. I thing Mr div has a reasonable approach. He's put the money up with the aim of learning something new to make money, or to prove to himself that it can't be done. Fortunately he's been smart and not risked his whole portfolio, in which case the small amount could be very valuable school fees.

Can't say I'd do the same with actual money, I'd rather use a trial account, but I've been told it doesn't have the same effect as when you use your own cash.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 29, 2016, 10:53:54 am
Hi Mr Div, I've been reading your experiences trading derivatives. However I'm sure you've also realized that even those traders with years of experience have lost all or some of their money. Therefore if you can't understand the basics of why the markets go up or down I would advise you to rather save your money until you do (I very sincerely apologize if in any way I appear to be insulting)

Maybe you right.

But have listened to many podcast and am now half way through "Market Wizards" - on the whole, they all tested and used demo accounts for months while putting their account money together - in the states often a minimum of $25 000 depending on what instruments you want to trade. All, bar one I've read about, blew up their accounts - normally multiple times. Trading with money, changes things.

I am certainly not made of money, and losing R5500 hurts( especially considering what I live on monthly) - but has already taught me some fantastic lesson - money sort of well spent in my book. But my main share account moves up or down (these day especially) in multiples of R5500 daily.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 29, 2016, 11:34:30 am
Mr Div thank you for understanding my post in the manner I intended. Never mind whatever you hear or see concerning trading. Do you know what makes markets go up and down especially even today for example?

I am not really interested in being quizzed by you - cheers.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Q on January 29, 2016, 11:41:53 am
 :)

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: JohnnyH on January 29, 2016, 01:32:41 pm
Hang in there and do not stop posting  :TU:.

I think, at the very least, I take comfort in knowing that a handful of people get a good giggle first thing in the morning with their coffee. I'm nice like that.  ;D

MrD, have you ever considered trading ETFs as Simon Brown does/suggests on his Webinars etc?
I was thinking it might be a bit "easier" if it doesn't move around as much as shares.

Hmm, does the GT247 account allow ETF trading at all MrD?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 29, 2016, 01:51:34 pm
I opened the Demo account on IG about 3 weeks ago, today it was closed as that is how the demo accounts work.

Started with R 1,000,000.00 and today at close (all positions was also closed) I was at R 1,841,686.00

 :TU:

Now I must just still decide if I open a real account and put real money in ..... As per my previous post there is Pro's and Cons.

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 29, 2016, 02:16:48 pm
Hang in there and do not stop posting  :TU:.

I think, at the very least, I take comfort in knowing that a handful of people get a good giggle first thing in the morning with their coffee. I'm nice like that.  ;D

MrD, have you ever considered trading ETFs as Simon Brown does/suggests on his Webinars etc?
I was thinking it might be a bit "easier" if it doesn't move around as much as shares.

Hmm, does the GT247 account allow ETF trading at all MrD?

Did take a look at them once - they actually not traded as heavily as your bigger shares - so the graphs are a bit gappy - so would probably be harder to get in and out at your price, depending on time frame I guess.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on January 29, 2016, 02:17:51 pm
I opened the Demo account on IG about 3 weeks ago, today it was closed as that is how the demo accounts work.

Started with R 1,000,000.00 and today at close (all positions was also closed) I was at R 1,841,686.00

 :TU:

Now I must just still decide if I open a real account and put real money in ..... As per my previous post there is Pro's and Cons.

Yes, jaDEB, nice, but u so pathetic, you stone frikkin last in the investors challenge .....   :wall:  :wall:

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: JohnnyH on January 29, 2016, 02:22:31 pm


Did take a look at them once - they actually not traded as heavily as your bigger shares - so the graphs are a bit gappy - so would probably be harder to get in and out at your price, depending on time frame I guess.
[/quote]

Yeah I thought as much. Maybe something popular like the STXIND or STXFIN moves around often enough?

I was kind of hoping to find something, like GT247, with a low-ish cost & the ability to put in stop-losses etc, buy one of the ETFs and let it do its thing, checking back weekly or so. Maybe a share like Sasol that moves with the oil price could work as well. It seems to track the oil movements quite closely.

Comments?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on January 29, 2016, 02:31:26 pm
You could - it is pretty cheap, 0.1% in and 0.1 out on the total amount - be hard to find cheaper. BUT you are charged nightly interest on long positions - so it would really depend on your time frame. Lastly, you are leveraged and that can hurt so you need a lot better risk management than on a normal stock account. Correctly sizing the position and using stops would help, of course, but stops are frequently not filled at the exact price you after.



Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on February 01, 2016, 06:32:16 am
Week 5 DAY 29 R-5526.76 R473.24 R-29.82 (I expect R4000 to be paid in today)

So, first day on the new system - opened up with a win, excellent. Then about 4 losses in the morning session - and then three wins in the afternoon. All cancelling each other out and just leaving me with the fees -  :D I do think, from here on in, I might just do updates weekly as it's going to be pretty boring - with no big losses or big wins planned.... But we will see how it goes.

I am pretty happy with the way January went on the whole. Had a couple of expensive trades that where in the black, turn red so quickly I just could not deal with them. But it made me think about and then implement, a proper risk strategy and know why I am implementing it. So now I would be quite happy moving R100K into the account knowing I can control the losses.

I would say, over the last month, if I had exited all trades when I was up or down 1.2%, I would be slightly up or would have broken even on the month. It was my exiting that was the huge problem - trying to let the winners run, but on the whole, watching them reverse, and then refusing to sell them until they really hurt. On the whole, going against the trend and looking for reversals cost me.

February is going to be all about trying to find a good setup(s) that work with the trend and then carry on using strict money management. I am going to carry on using 1.2% as my limit/stop although I should really be managing the trade when i am in it with a trailing stop once i get to 1% or so. I might start doing that at some point in the month but at the moment I am more interested in if the trade works or not vs. how much it works.

Once entering a trade, it can ether loses a lot, lose a little, break even, make a little or make a lot. I've had huge problems with the first one. But I think I have now got a system where I will eliminate it from the equation. The next three, will probably cancel each other out so it will be just a matter of letting the winners run once I get a system going.

My preference is still with day trading as this eliminates the often massive gap that happens often in the morning. I like the idea of getting in making a couple of bucks then closing of the day. I do know that the real money would come from swing trading but I'll let time and experience take me down that path.

I have learn't a massive amount from when I started out a month I just hope it carries on.

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on February 02, 2016, 04:22:27 am
Day 30 R-5553.87 R4446.13 R-27.11

5 loses, 2 drawn and 1 decent win. You would think, with all the tools and indicators at my disposal, that i could at least pick 50% winners right? My wife, who also is a long term investor, is going to be doing the course I did and then take it from there. Personally, it would be great doing this together. I think having another person there to discuss trades would be great and increase the win ratio.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on February 03, 2016, 06:52:50 am
Day 31 R-5465.62 R4534.38 R88.25

Breaking a 5 day loosing streak! Was actually a bit disappointed as I had actually made R160 or so, but looking at the statement I see the monthly fee for being connected live to the JSE was taken off (R72.96). Very happy with the way yesterday went. Only had one loss and 4 wins. The best nicest win was shorting telkom but instead of taking profits at 2 x stop, manually moved the stop down as the share decreased - I actually then got double what I had originally planned.

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on February 08, 2016, 07:34:38 am
Day 34 R-5662.72 R4337.28

As said, not going to update this every day - now I've got some risk management in place it's going to get a bit boring. Although I have had no problem loosing some money BUT learning about the importance of risk management - I do not think I need to loose money while finding a system that works for me. In fact, once I find a system that I am comfortable with, I really am going to want some money to play with. So have started using the demo account but if I see a trade that is too juicy to pass up, will risk my 1% on it.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Patrick on February 08, 2016, 12:32:14 pm
now I've got some risk management in place it's going to get a bit boring
Ah come on, you've got losses to win back. Double up so you can make it back quickly  >:D

Probably school fees well spent actually. Glad you're only risking what can be afforded.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on February 09, 2016, 08:46:55 am
Just to note this is not for the faint hearted,

I had my IG Demo account extended, just mailed them and asked.  :TU:

I used R5000 as if I actually had real money in.

Longed NPN, I lost R4000 so far,  :'( , I have not closed my position, thus if NPN opens down, I lost all my money.

Will see.

update, lost R5000 in 3 working days.

Play play deposit R5000 in account today, my wife is going to kill me dead... :'(
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on February 09, 2016, 11:31:22 am
JaDeb :)

Yup, before committing serious money, you need to have a risk strategy, know how to use it, and then use it. At the moment I am just risking 1% of my capital a time. I always have a stop in place - that's decided before entering a trade. I quite like having a trailing loss for profits. Just need to find a system that can comfortably pick 50% winners  ???   :D
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on February 09, 2016, 01:36:22 pm
OK, lost another R2500, thus have R2500 left from R10,000 (Demo Account)

Longed KIO, BIL, bang gone.

FFS...
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on February 15, 2016, 07:08:16 am
Week 7 R-6342.64 R3657.36 R-679.92

Felt slightly more confident last week - slowly getting comfortable with a system that suits me. Did stuff up on Thursday, watched WHL tank on decent results, felt it was an overreaction and jumped in long, breaking all my rules on position sizes and stop losses. Then had to watch it tank even more AND missed out on a good, planned move on Truworths. Did recover a fair amount on Friday and am still hopeful to make some profit this week. The idea was good, the execution was pathetic. Other than that, have a long in EOH that has been ticking up nicely over the week but have been hurt with small shorts on Anglo. Hell, maybe we did hit bottom in resources! I would be surprised though as I haven't heard of demand picking up at all - bar gold. Dead cat bounce?

Half way through feb and still have more than half my account - things are looking up  :D
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on February 22, 2016, 07:22:04 am
Week 8 R-5926.38 R4073.62 R416.26

Well, was up on the previous week, so that makes a change. 8 losers and 7 winners for the week. At the moment I am trying to buy less shares but then have larger stop losses and swing trade instead of day trade. This week I plan to start re reading study my material from the start again. Weirdly i am almost less confident in TA as a way to make money than when I first started. I say this, because money I was planning on putting into my trading account, I am thinking I would rather buy an oversea's property share.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on February 25, 2016, 09:46:36 am
(https://mytinyurbanfarm.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/clipboard01.jpg?w=656)

Getting a bit gatvol TBO.

so on the 19th went short on CML @ 6208
on the whole trade is working well, as it decreases I slowly decrease my stop and plan my exit.
so this morning my limit is @ 5950 in profit, but still some breathing room.

now, you see that spike.

wipes out my stop AND GT247 only get me out it's very peak - 6286. So have lost, of course.

Then it comes straight down and now sitting at 5846.

It's not the first time this has happened.

So what do you do? Not use stops??

Having serious doubts about pursuing this TBO.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: JohnnyH on February 25, 2016, 10:08:00 am
Do you think it would have been different with another broker? I read somewhere that some brokers guarantee a stop loss?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: gcr on February 25, 2016, 10:13:41 am
Have you ever considered talking to a human being at GT247 to establish how their algorithms actually work and why it took you out at the peak. There was a guy who immigrated to London and he castigated this crowd and he reported that he lost megabucks over their platform
Not fully au fait with all the circumstances but maybe make contact with users of GT247 to see what their experiences have been - especially in volatile markets
 
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on February 25, 2016, 11:11:09 am
First thing I did was check google finance - just to make sure that peak was there!

I am sure GT247 has better things to do than rip me of a couple of bucks - I am no Soros  :D

I just think that's just the way the cookie crumbles some time - my order just goes into the "system" - and handles the way it's handled - not really blaming GT TBO. Yes, you can get guaranteed stops with IG Jimmy - costs a whopping 1% which is huge when you consider my buying and selling comms are 0.1% ether side.

I am just struggling to get my head around bought my shares (or sold as I had to buy) @ 6286 - surely that's just dumb?? Some massive order? But why not trickle it in and get a better price?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on February 29, 2016, 09:28:59 am
Week 9 R-5740.28 R4259.28 R186.10

Wow - in profit 2 weeks in a row.  :)

Might be getting a little better at this - just having problems resolving the spikes issue. I really dislike not having stops - just goes against what I feel is right. Will see how it goes. Would have been nailed again on Friday on a short on nampak had I had  a stop.

Shorted a bit at the end of Friday - so starting off reasonably well.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on March 07, 2016, 06:39:45 am
week 10 -R6186 R3813 R-446

So did not use stops - and did the expected, let a couple of trades run way to far above their "mental" stops. I was bearish the whole week against a very bullish (the most since 2009) market. Most notable loss was of R344 to a Nampak short - way above my limit of 2% - so R80.

The problem is, of course, is some times you need to let a share "blow of steam" and it will return to it's original trajectory - there has also been a few times where not rashly selling has saved me.

Spikes is the reason why I ditched stop losses. But I do like stops - esp trailing stops. So am now thinking I just need to find instruments that do not or seldom have spikes. highly traded/liquid instruments. I think also the time frame might have a lot to do with it - basically a "spike" on a 1hr is often just part of a weekly range on the wk/mth chart.

Wife starts the same course I did tomorrow. Hoping the bug bites - would be nice to have her to bounce off ideas - she is very cautious by nature and as a graphic designer might see interesting patterns. There is a good chance she will kick my ass at it.

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Moneypenny on March 07, 2016, 09:37:46 am

Wife starts the same course I did tomorrow. Hoping the bug bites - would be nice to have her to bounce off ideas - she is very cautious by nature and as a graphic designer might see interesting patterns. There is a good chance she will kick my ass at it.



You go girl!   (I'm rooting for her, in case I'm too subtle.  >:D)
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: gcr on March 07, 2016, 02:18:15 pm
Maybe the first conversation after your wife finishes her course is to determine who the least emotional of the two you or her is.  ;D Then work a strategy around your stop losses as it seems that these are the hindrances to you making money. The spikes I am almost sure are as a result of traders selling "at best" rather than at a fixed price - this will invariably take out tight stop losses
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on March 07, 2016, 03:09:26 pm
I would say me - unless, of course, I gave her my money to use/loose.  :D I think the spikes are a deliberate method for taking out small retailers in relatively illiquid stocks - it works
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on April 30, 2016, 07:16:38 am
Just a quick update.

I ditched the CFD's - the spikes did kill me. Maybe I needed to be more generous with my stops! That said, I might find a space in my portfolio for a CFD account - but with longer time limits in mind - weeks to months vs hours to days and with very tight money management.

Anyway, to counter the the spikes I needed to move to a more liquid instruments - forex. Yes, I also gasped. I have always treated Forex the same way I would a roulette table. I felt slightly dirty, hence my posts drying up...

Did it work?

Err, no. But no more spikes...

So I closed my GT cfd account and opened a Future Trader account with them - has a slightly different way of dealing with Forex - but still crappy software/ charting software. Had that for a bit and the bleed  became a trickle. I also opened up a demo MT4 account overseas and could see how much easier it would be if I could use MT4. (MT 4 is a trading package - but you trade off the graph which is great if you are a day trader). Only problem is no one reputable operates the MT4 platform in SA.

But eventually opened one about a week and a half ago.

Now it's very early days, but things are looking a lot better.  I'll post again at the end of May - target would be to grow my account by 20 - 25% - do that for three months and I will add some more to the account. I am working on a micro account - I actually will become a more profitable with a 'normal' account as it has lower costs and I am a bit of  a scalper - yesterday I did 63 trades, pretty much all on one currency pair.

So walking towards the light at the end of the tunnel, but well aware that a train might just be approaching from behind...
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Orca on April 30, 2016, 06:10:15 pm
Good luck Mr Div. Look at the small print about scalping before you start. I was with FXCM and scalped for 3 months and made quite a good profit but then they reversed all my trades saying that I took advantage of the system as my trade durations were too short.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on April 30, 2016, 11:17:25 pm
Good call - did check up on it - and under FAQ ( I am with xm.com)

Quote
Do you allow scalping?
Yes, we do.


Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on May 27, 2016, 07:31:44 am
May update $300 - $350

So had a bit of a shocker after the last post, had moved my micro account from $200 - $300 in a week or so, then lost $150 in a day! Ouch. To be honest, I was lucky to even escape with that - at one point it looked like I was going to be wiped out. Of course, had I waited 12 hours I would have doubled my money. I do seem to spend most of my time just hoping to get out even!

But carried on and slowly got myself back up - but often on way to much risk.I decided to start logging how much risk i would take at it's highest point through the day. Last week I had a pretty big one and ended up $185 up for the week - and was up $437. But gave a bit of that back on Monday, as I seem to do. So decided to change tack slightly.

I really want this to work and become my job - but won't allow myself to have the money to do it if I cannot trade in a controlled manner. I decided, if I can show 50 straight days of controlled trading (using SL's, stopping at a certain point, only use a set amount of margin) then I would up the ante - say 5 times to start with - anther 50 days and we will go for 10 times. At ten times, I start to make a living - looking at $500 per week on a $3000 - $5000 pot. Seems a hell of a lot, but in action seems quite doable - time will tell.

The the biggest thing for me at the moment is to sort out the money management side - I have more winning days than loosing (12 vs 7 for the month) - but some of the loosing days are way to big.
 
Need to pick up on the studying - seems to have fallen by the wayside a bit. Today I will be doing my trading from the sofa while watching the french open - as I have for the week. I do allow myself an hour break for lunch with my wife, and then another for a after lunch nap.It's not the worst way to get through a day.  :)

Hit target for the month, even if done by a very round about way - so am happy about that. Target for next month would be $420 - but weekly, I am going for $50 per week.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Patrick on May 27, 2016, 12:26:58 pm
In theory I would imagine that if you could get to $50 a week in a fairly proven way, then as you said, you could just apply more capital to get to $500 a week. What would stop you from increasing capital x 100 to get to $5000 a week then? Aside from needing a giant pair of course...

How many hours a week are you averaging now if you include all research etc?
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on May 27, 2016, 03:06:39 pm
No research, just trading off the charts.  I spend quite a bit or time "around" a computer/phone - just keeping an eye out for opportunities for day trading. Eventually I guess I would progress to swing trading. I might be giving it a go next week - basically using larger stops/ smaller lot sizes and using the 4hr/D chart - then you really do not need to be a round a pc. 

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on June 30, 2016, 09:27:53 pm
June $620 ( I did add $160) and not sure if I had included $ 120 that I had taken out - anyway, looking at my records I am pretty much flat for the month. Mainly because of ONE day - no, not BEXIT, the Thursday before. It was a brilliant day - pretty much just got stuck in gold - mainly bullish. My calls where spot on and by 6 o'clock or so i was up $150 or so - so percentage wise, a massive day - never had much at risk ether the whole day.

 I was trying to stay out of the market for the rest of the day, telling myself I had done so well - just try keep it. But then I noticed gold had pulled back a bit, ok - just a little wager, for a bit of fun. Pulled back a bit more, ok - another little bet. Slowly it pulled back, and I kept place these small bets. Then bang, a big pull back. Suddenly I am $100 down - do I pull out? Take the loss - but still leave the day on a respectable $50 up? The price is now a bit range bound - so i start closing out positions at a loss whenever there is a small bullish thrust. Had about 15 or so (only $2 each, but 500-1 leverage so about $15000) close around 5 and keep hoping the bull market picks up. bang, another massive fall - and now it just keeps falling.

Now down around $200 - and when it pause put on some stop losses - and begged for the price to rise. But only paused for a few minutes before running though my S/L's. Feel slightly sick. Down $250. Then I try win some of it back and lost another $50. Eish. felt pretty sh&tty. I seem to be on repeat.

I had started the account with $200 and then had taken $240 off the table as well as putting an extra $160 into the account.  So started the next day with $483 - that was two weeks ago - up to $620 and up $260 overall - should be way higher if I wasn't such an idiot at times  :wall:

 
have decide this is that this is the last bucks I am putting into this - so all up it has been R15000. I would be doing so much better if I could avoid the blowouts - but not 100% sure if I am programmed that way.  I really enjoy this though - can happily do this from 06H00 to 20H00 every day. Anyway, onwards and upwards - think I am getting slightly better - but still early days I guess.

 I do wonder how often (bad) days traders go through laptops - this laptop is on it's 9th life!
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Orca on July 01, 2016, 12:14:04 am
I really hope you make Mr D. I did not and lost my R110k.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on July 01, 2016, 07:52:03 am
Ouch - that is a healthy chunk to say goodbye to. I would hate for this not to work - I would then have to get off the couch and actually go do something  :'(
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on July 08, 2016, 10:44:30 am
Goodbye high flying FX dealer career  :'(

Just do not have the personality for it, unfortunately. I just cannot seem to stop revenge trading - I do have more winning days than loosing, but once a month I just seem to get pissed off and snap - not good when I already have slant towards gambling! Only way I could hope to make this work would be some sort of mechanical way that my account gets locked out after a breaching a set limit - and no way to reverse it. I might look into that in the future.

So taken a R15K loss - not huge but irritating nevertheless - esp with so many great bargains out there. I do not see my personality changing so no point in loosing the other R10K.

Anyway, will move focus on to my next idea for making money while swanning around the world, become a fiction writer!  :LHST:
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Orca on July 08, 2016, 11:35:40 am
I also tend to get addicted to greed and that is why I never go to casinos. I traded gold and sugar successfully to begin with then got greedy and upped my lot size with no stop losses and landed up with a margin call.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on September 21, 2016, 09:47:08 am
Quick update.

Like a skanky crack whore, I've gone back to my dark place and handed over R60K to GT247.

Watched Mr Price shares drop.

How can this be, I ask - the results arn't THAT bad

let's tear up the rule that say "ALL trades to be evaluated and planned BEFORE entering" and buy 100 @190

It keeps on dropping. Another 100 @R180

Couple of days pass - surely it has to turn?? another 100 @ R165

Please, please turn 50 @ R155

Finding religion now - a voice instructs me to buy another 50 @ R150

Hell, now i'll just be happy to get out close to even (Avg is R172)



So nothing changed on this side

 :D

(on the bright side - trades that are following my system are showing promise. It seems after hours I can be an rational trader, just cannot watch the screen all day as I turn into an impulsive idiot - live and learn eh?)
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: jaDEB on September 21, 2016, 10:53:28 am
Who would have thought, the changing in weather is F%$# up the Polar bears' living conditions and Mr Price.
Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Mr_Dividend on December 22, 2016, 09:12:49 am
So a quick wrap up for the year.

I had basically "spent" R24K in "fees" on my CFD accounts - but have clawed back around R8K in trading on my ungeared account - so call it a loss of R16k for the year.

I went from doing multiple trades a day in CFD's to a few months in FOREX then back to CFD's but swing trading - now a quick trade in a few days - but have trades for a couple of months.

Golden lesson learn't (and paid for a few times) - trades must be planned and sized before entering. Seriously, if you cannot do that, don't bother playing.

Future? A few time this year I thought I should just give up - my personality just didn't gell with trading. but after plenty of trial and error I seemed to have found/made a system that suits me. Early days and seems to work on a ranging market but will need something else for trending shares. Looking back, I started the year as an idiot and am leaving  it as a common fool - so progress all round.

stats from my system - last 24 trades, stretches back a few months.

14 winners 10 losers with winners being 77% larger than losers. - not taking in account trading fees. Have looked at fees on individual trades and not too bad in the overall scheme of things as i am looking at quite a few % swings and i pay 0.1% on buying and selling - hurts more on day trading/scalping.

2017 - will carry on with my system - but will start playing with a demo account and look at a few other set ups. Also want to learn about options and futures - have a few books on the subject to get me started.

BTW - in the previous post a mentioned a MrP trade. I had not followed my rules, it was an of the cuff trade, i then compounded the mistake so many times - just trying to find a way out - basically averaging down. Held onto the trade for close on 8 weeks - and this is the worst part. After selling the lot, the share reversed WITHIN a COUPLE OF HOURS - not joking. Was furious - not so much with my exit, but more with my entry.

for those that are into trading - for some Christmas cheer - take a look at this on a chart (10H35)


Trade ID   15825315
Instrument   Mr Price Group Ltd
Execution   Client Open Trade
Buy/Sell   Sell
Number of Shares   1000
Price   12,690.00
Total Margin   0.00
Margin Movement   -16,250.00
Date   Tue Nov 15 08:35:50 GMT 2016

can you beat that for bad timing esp considering how long i had held onto the trade! Can sort of laugh about it now - at least the nightmares have stopped. Had to buy a new tennis racket after smashing one though!

Title: Re: Mr Div's CFD diary :: How to loose R25K in a few easy steps
Post by: Oversix on December 22, 2016, 11:21:11 pm
Hi MrD have a look at this website http://www.realchartist.com/ they only trading the Alsi but its a good start as he post videos ens.