Author Topic: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas  (Read 49549 times)

yozzi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2016, 05:03:09 pm »
I have a UK pension lump sum due in the next few months which will be paid into my UK acc and my intentions would be to invest it in DBX Trackers or similar ETF's in Europe, US, etc but I would like to do this without using a broker and presume the best way is to buy from DBX directly? Would I be saving much on fees, etc? Don't want to bring the funds here prefer to keep the sterling in the UK.

Is this straightforward and easy to do or is it a hassle and best to use a broker?

Also, if you were in the same position where would you invest?

Hi guys, as per my previous post in Sept I've now been paid out the pension amount but have tried to open an online account with a few UK brokers but as soon as they detect I'm based in SA they won't allow an account to be opened is there an easier way to buy DBX WD OR DBXUS ETF's with a UK broker as I'd like to keep the funds over there?

Patrick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2550
  • Karma: +47/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2016, 05:26:39 pm »
Yes, open a US based interactive brokers account and buy VWRD on the london exchange. That's what I've done, and have bought for the last 2 months. I also couldn't find a cheaper international broker than interactive that would accept South Africans.

Hamster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
  • Karma: +13/-0
    • View Profile
    • Off Topic
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2016, 06:26:13 pm »
Yes, open a US based interactive brokers account and buy VWRD on the london exchange. That's what I've done, and have bought for the last 2 months. I also couldn't find a cheaper international broker than interactive that would accept South Africans.
You have a link or is their name literally "interactive"?

Patrick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2550
  • Karma: +47/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2016, 08:03:59 pm »
Yes, open a US based interactive brokers account and buy VWRD on the london exchange. That's what I've done, and have bought for the last 2 months. I also couldn't find a cheaper international broker than interactive that would accept South Africans.
You have a link or is their name literally "interactive"?

http://interactivebrokers.com/

gcr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +28/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2016, 10:54:43 pm »
Just as a curiousity what made you pick the above company and how much of your permitted R 1 million did you entrust to them. I presume you did the transfer via a bank so that there is a paper trail in the event of funds going missing or removed from the overseas account.
To me it seems a bit scary as the whole account opening is based on trust which in this country is at a pretty low level
 
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein

Patrick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2550
  • Karma: +47/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2016, 09:17:54 am »
I did a lot of searching for something equivalent to the options Americans had just buying Vanguard. Somehow I stumbled on the term non-resident alien (NRA), which is anyone living outside of the US who isn't a US citizen. That lead to a lot of really well written wiki's and forum posts on the bogleheads forums. There are a few options for NRAs, but the one most recommended by the bogleheads, and on a number of other sites was interactive brokers. I also liked that their monthly fee is waived if you have $100 000 invested with them.

At the moment I just have new money in their account, so it's not my R1m by quite some distance, but the account is ready and waiting, and should I need to move the funds I'll be able to. I'm also fortunate to have a US bank account, but they take transfers in all major currencies, so an EU, UK or even local bank offshore account would be perfect.

I was close to moving all my cash in December after it looked like we were heading downhill fast, but I couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger. All the reading material says the dollar is overvalued, and the rand is undervalued, and I just couldn't swallow a hit that big. I even went as far as getting my tax clearance, almost. It turns out you can't get tax clearance for investment without going through a bank/broker, but the lady at SARS did confirm they would give it to me with the documents I had on hand. We'll have to wait and see which way we head.

Eventually all my investments will sit in interactive. If I decide I want to hold South African shares, I'll just buy the iShares MSCI South Africa Index Fund, or buy dual listed shares, but I think once I'm out I'll be staying out.

Strive

  • I've just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2016, 10:27:57 am »
Hi Patrick - am I right in understanding that, in your case, you'd have no choice but to take the capital gains hit if you wanted to transfer your investments out of the country? Or is there some loophole one can exploit?

Patrick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2550
  • Karma: +47/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2016, 11:10:18 am »
Yes, you'll have to take the hit, and unfortunately even inflation isn't taken in to account. My strategy is to sell when all markets are down like in a bear market. That minimizes your capital gains for instance your JSE shares aren't worth as much, but you also buy foreign shares at a lower price, so the net effect is no loss.

gcr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +28/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2016, 12:30:26 pm »
Yes, you'll have to take the hit, and unfortunately even inflation isn't taken in to account. My strategy is to sell when all markets are down like in a bear market. That minimizes your capital gains for instance your JSE shares aren't worth as much, but you also buy foreign shares at a lower price, so the net effect is no loss.
You like to travel so one option is to take a busman's tour of selected countries and take out the maximum travel allowance possible for you and your wife and then deposit the excess over needs into your foreign account. The foreign country where you funds are being held may request you to explain the deposit when made but I am sure they are competent to report as required without any problems for you
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein

yozzi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2016, 03:00:16 pm »
Yes, open a US based interactive brokers account and buy VWRD on the london exchange. That's what I've done, and have bought for the last 2 months. I also couldn't find a cheaper international broker than interactive that would accept South Africans.

Thanks Patrick have opened an account online so hope I'm up and away!

Nios

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +3/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2016, 09:47:12 pm »
Very informative thread. How did you open a US bank account Patrick?

Patrick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2550
  • Karma: +47/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2016, 04:06:41 pm »
Very informative thread. How did you open a US bank account Patrick?
Looking for a different thread, but just saw this now Nios. The agency I work for helped me open the US bank account, unfortunately it's not a method that would work for others. If you have lots of cash any of the big banks locally will be able to help you, but in terms of low cost, we're all still looking. Investec seems to be the most clued up so far.


conjam

  • I've just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2016, 01:20:18 pm »
I use Webtrader from Standard Bank.
The offshore bank they are using is Deutsche Bank.

I am a bit worried because it seems all is not well at Deutsche Bank.
I bought mostly BRK B and Vanguard, so I suppose even if Deutsche Bank goes under, my funds are still ok.
Any thoughts?


« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 01:28:12 pm by conjam »

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2274
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Investing in SA or taking/leaving money overseas
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2016, 04:46:29 pm »
Citywire-UK

The FTSE 100 snapped out of a three-day losing streak amid signs some of the clouds over the banking sector sparked by Deutsche Bank's problems were beginning to clear.

The UK blue-chip index rose 64 points, or 0.9%, to 6,871, helped by a boost to sentiment from a rise in Deutsche Bank (DBKGn.DE) shares from lows.

Deutsche Bank rose 2.1% after Monday's 7.5% tumble and sideways trading yesterday. The move came after chief executive John Cryan dismissed claims the bank had sought German government help to pay a $14 billion US penalty (£10.8 billion) over the sale of mortgage products in the run-up to the financial crisis.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.