Author Topic: I want to experiment with dividends  (Read 1620 times)

Moonraker

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2017, 04:13:10 pm »
H - seems a fair spread - one share may disappoint and that may be Checkers as one doesn't know what the fallout from Steinhoff may be. If Wiese has a fire sale on Steinhoff he may have to lighten his holdings in Checkers to prop up Steinhoff. He could also find a moneylender who may advance him cash based on his holdings in Checkers. All I am saying is that these guys are trying to juggle balls but they are all shaped like rugby balls so as they drop they could bounce anywhere. But hey that's all part of the learning and knowledge journey
I saw your comment on Moneyweb, do you think that despite the options having been exercised, the conditions precedent may halt the investment in SHP?
Quote
The implementation of the investment in Shoprite is subject to a number of conditions
precedent as set out in the Pre-listing Statement, which include, inter alia, merger filings with
various African Competition Authorities. To this end, the filings are being completed and will
be submitted to the relevant authorities in the foreseeable future.


Shareholders will be informed once all the conditions precedent for the implementation of the
transaction have been met.

gcr

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2017, 06:22:47 pm »
H - seems a fair spread - one share may disappoint and that may be Checkers as one doesn't know what the fallout from Steinhoff may be. If Wiese has a fire sale on Steinhoff he may have to lighten his holdings in Checkers to prop up Steinhoff. He could also find a moneylender who may advance him cash based on his holdings in Checkers. All I am saying is that these guys are trying to juggle balls but they are all shaped like rugby balls so as they drop they could bounce anywhere. But hey that's all part of the learning and knowledge journey
I saw your comment on Moneyweb, do you think that despite the options having been exercised, the conditions precedent may halt the investment in SHP?
Quote
The implementation of the investment in Shoprite is subject to a number of conditions
precedent as set out in the Pre-listing Statement, which include, inter alia, merger filings with
various African Competition Authorities. To this end, the filings are being completed and will
be submitted to the relevant authorities in the foreseeable future.


Shareholders will be informed once all the conditions precedent for the implementation of the
transaction have been met.
Don't think these conditions are reversible but then again both Wiese, his son are attorneys
I would just wait and see what happens as Shoprite don't seem to have suffered any fall out as yet, but could affect those that were going to sell Steinhoff branded products through their Hyperama's
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein

Mr_Dividend

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2017, 07:59:56 pm »
So basic research, forums the rest of the interwebs I've come up with this. 10 shares:

All right, so after some basic research and pulling data from threads on a couple of forums etc. I've come up with this:

AVI   AVI Ltd.
BVT  Bidvest Group Ltd
CLS  Clicks Group Ltd
SHP  Shoprite Holdings Ltd
DSY  Discovery Ltd
NPN  Naspers Limited
CPI   Capitec Bank Holdings Limited
KIO   Kumba Iron Ore Ltd.
RES  Resilient REIT Limited
SRE  Sirius Real Estate Ltd

That's a pretty good selection.  I probably would change kumba to a more diversified miner - GLN has a lot of debt but has a lot of battery/EV resources (copper/cobalt/nickle) and would be my pick. Clicks is pretty expensive for a retailer IMO and would wait for a 15/20% pull back if possible. EOH, for me, is a bargain - but unfortunately market just does not agree :'(

Hamster

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2017, 08:17:58 pm »
So many people recommended Clicks and here you come and ruin it for me :mad: :P

GLN you say? You're the second person to mention them not being the best pic. Somebody mentioned THA as well.

Mr_Dividend

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2017, 08:50:09 pm »
So many people recommended Clicks and here you come and ruin it for me :mad: :P

GLN you say? You're the second person to mention them not being the best pic. Somebody mentioned THA as well.

Clicks is great - so far, very predictable, stable earnings - HEPS growth of around 15% per year. But is that worth a pe of 33? Nope. Maybe pe of 25 so around 13500 - on future earnings under 15000.

Think IF you going to pick up a miner then diversified is the way to go - both in markets and location. BHP would be my second(safer) choice, but prefer GLN's mix - but not their debt. That said, a few good years and that could come down a lot. I still would though be weary on what part they played in oilgate (or whatever we calling it..)

But ja. My crystal ball broke a long time ago when it comes to shares. I do think for most people a portfolio consisting of 2-3 etfs consisting of 75 -90 % of a persons portfolio +  5/10 companies the rest makes the most sense - and I might head that way for my capital gains portfolio.

Hamster

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2017, 02:06:51 pm »
So... what if we replace:

BVT with BID
KIO with BIL

?

gcr

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2017, 02:29:10 pm »
Do the banks still issue share installments - in 2005 and up until about 2009 I used them extensively to grow my wealth and they were useful from the perspective that you only paid about 40% of the share value. You could also roll them over after the 12 month expiry period or buy the actual shares for the other 60%.
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein

Moonraker

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2017, 02:59:41 pm »
Quite frankly, in a market like it is now, I wouldn't do any 'experimenting'. Remember elective conference, moody's towards end Feb, SONA and budget could all move the needle quite severely either way for different sectors .... 

Patrick

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2017, 09:04:12 am »
Another issue with dividends is that taxes are now 20% off the total amount
Not foreign dividends  :whistle:
How do you account for them in your tax return?
You use an exclusion ratio (55.6% of foreign dividends are excluded) and add the rest to normal income. That means unless you earn R1.5 million a year you'll never pay 20%. Here's where I wrote about it: http://investorchallenge.co.za/pay-less-dividend-tax-by-doing-this-one-thing/

Moneypenny

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2017, 09:24:35 am »
Okay, good to be reminded.
Veni, vidi, vici

czc

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2017, 10:00:00 am »
I just don't understand how Capitec can be worth so much compared to the other banks.

gcr

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Re: I want to experiment with dividends
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2017, 06:15:48 pm »
Another issue with dividends is that taxes are now 20% off the total amount
Not foreign dividends  :whistle:
How do you account for them in your tax return?
You use an exclusion ratio (55.6% of foreign dividends are excluded) and add the rest to normal income. That means unless you earn R1.5 million a year you'll never pay 20%. Here's where I wrote about it: http://investorchallenge.co.za/pay-less-dividend-tax-by-doing-this-one-thing/
That's current circumstances - Gigabytes has to find about 60 bill (better than Steinhoff) so could well ramp up dividends tax and pinch a bit from foreign dividends - won't really know until February
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein