Author Topic: Devastating market crash. When ?  (Read 36508 times)

Moonraker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +31/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2014, 02:09:21 pm »
China move hints at 30% market correction

Quote
South African investors who are smiling all the way to the bank with the JSE All Share Index continuously hitting new highs, may want to keep an eye on Chinese policy makers who recently started moves to weaken their currency. This may be the first step in the bursting of the equity bubble and the start of a slow-down in China which will directly impact South African companies and their profits.

..and I suppose most want to buy, buy, buy, for fear of losing out. Me too, up to a point. Looking at MND.  :whistle:

Moneypenny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1891
  • Karma: +37/-0
    • View Profile
    • Bu Valiere
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2014, 08:23:32 am »
O well, its bound to happen sooner or later, I'm just surprised its taking so long.

Investors should be excited, its actually very good long term entry points after dust has settled. O:-)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 08:27:03 am by Moneypenny »

Patrick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2550
  • Karma: +47/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2014, 11:40:43 am »
It'll suck to see all the cash I invested lose a big chunk, but if we get a big correction, and it looks like the recovery begins (again assuming I'll be able to recognise that) I'll pull out as much as I can from my homeloan and go bargain hunting...

Moonraker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +31/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2014, 12:09:55 pm »
As you know by now, I always tend towards the pessimistic view, but quite frankly I think the emerging market and fragile five
scaremongering is somewhat overhyped. As a long term investor with mainly defensive and Rand hedge stocks, I wouldn't worry
too much.

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2274
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2014, 06:59:25 pm »
Russia to invade Ukraine at 6am tomorrow if it does not surrender. Stocks down over 1% in the US already. Relations between Russia and the US that have built up solidly over the years has broken down to the Cold War era levels.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Bevan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Karma: +19/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2014, 01:53:57 pm »
Just one word 'GOLD'

I don't buy the gold argument this time. First of all, investors never did as well as they thought they might last time the world looked like collapsing. Plus many Chinese investors have used physical gold as collateral to finance their wheeling and dealing. Now that the wheels are coming off I expect a lot of physical gold to get dumped into the market to cover real cash margin calls.

At the end of the day gold will probably go sideways in dollar terms and down in Rand terms i.e. I expect short term ZAR weakness but longer term ZAR strength as hot money flows into SA on the back of a new carry trade.
Audi, vide, tace, si vis vivere in pace. Pax vobiscum.
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient - https://www.thrivecentre.co.za

Moonraker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +31/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2014, 01:58:24 pm »
From:- http://hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc140602.htm

Quote
In my view, investors should be thinking very seriously about the extent of potential market losses over the completion of the present market cycle. It is the wrong question to ask “where else am I going to put my money with short-term interest rates near zero?” The problem with that question is that it carries the implicit assumption that the expected return on stocks is even positive or adequate given the prospective risks. At present, the better question is “do I prefer a zero loss to the prospect of a 40-60% interim loss in a market that is strenuously overbought and overbullish, and has returned to valuations that are more than double reliable historical valuation norms?”

On Friday, our estimate of prospective 10-year S&P nominal total returns set a new low for this cycle, falling below 2.2% annually. This is worse than the level observed at the 2007 market peak, or at any point in history outside of the late-1990's market bubble. It's possible that investors could drive prospective returns even lower than they are now, and valuations even higher than they are now, as investors did during that bubble. Still, even that advance started to be punctuated by abrupt vertical declines or "air pockets" once overvalued, overbought, overbullish features emerged (recall for example the increasingly frequent and distinct peak-trough corrections of 10% or more in Oct 1997, Jul-Oct 1998, Jul-Oct 1999, Jan-Feb 2000, Mar-Apr 2000, and Sep-Oct 2000 even before more severe losses got underway). See Setting the Record Straight for a general review of current valuations and prospective returns.

If your answer is still to take your chances in stocks, my only hope is that you do it consciously, fully aware that you’ve decided to ignore or discount the lessons from a century of historical evidence. The simple fact is that somebody has to hold stocks at present levels, so there’s really no point in trying to convince others to embrace our concerns, or to answer every second-guess that presumes that “this time is different.” I’ll be quite happy if at least stocks are being held by those who understand the full narrative of the recent half-cycle, and have seen, considered, and discarded our work.

"Well bought is half-sold. it takes a lot of hard work or a lot of luck to turn something bought at a too-high price into a successful investment. There aren't always great things to do, and sometimes we maximize our contribution by being discerning and relatively inactive. Patient opportunism - waiting for bargains - is often your best strategy."


Moneypenny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1891
  • Karma: +37/-0
    • View Profile
    • Bu Valiere
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2014, 02:09:49 pm »
I'm starting to think it's not going to happen. :P

Nivek

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
  • Karma: +6/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2014, 03:14:02 pm »
I think markets crash on average every 10 years, so we should be good until 2018 or so.

franz

  • I've just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 45
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2014, 04:31:28 pm »
Stay in the market and have some cash available for a small correction and buying opportunities.
just my view for 2014/2015

Moonraker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +31/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2014, 12:30:49 pm »
Time to revisit this old thread.
Albert Edwards Says Watch Japanese Yen and Be Very Afraid

Quote
Almost 100 percent of investors think we’re at the start of a long recovery,” Edwards said. “It’s already a long recovery. Forget about starting from here.

Remember a 33⅓ % drop means you need a 50% rise to get back to where you were. :)

gcr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +28/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2014, 06:03:29 pm »
This is where SARS are absolutely stupid - if you haven't held shares for 3 years you could get yourself into some trouble if you sell down your holdings to protect your capital. Clearly they are only after the tax and don't give a hoot as to whether you protect your capital against a significant market correction 
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein

Moonraker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
  • Karma: +31/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2014, 04:03:58 pm »
I reckon a crash scenario is imminent, similar to 2008/9. Will start selling some come Monday 6/10/2014. CML would be hard hit, but a crash will take
everything down to a greater or lesser extent. Expecting anything between 20% to 50%. (Yes gcr, SARS will not suffer too much).
Two possibilities; sell some/all now, or ride out the crash, but it may take many years to get back to Fridays price levels.
Nothing was learnt in 2008, sovereign debt is now even higher !

Edit: Only my opinion, obviously you all have your own thoughts.

Check the F&G Indicators ! Fear & Greed Index

« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 05:49:13 pm by Moonraker »

Bevan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Karma: +19/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2014, 08:12:52 am »
I would not be selling this week. This looks like being a big relief bounce on most markets. Will be clearer towards week end / next week where we go from here.
Audi, vide, tace, si vis vivere in pace. Pax vobiscum.
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient - https://www.thrivecentre.co.za

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2274
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Devastating market crash. When ?
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2014, 11:27:57 am »
At these levels, I would buy. Not sell.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.