Author Topic: Anyone here invest offshore?  (Read 30476 times)

conradl

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2015, 09:34:04 am »
Hi Conradl

I am interested in the SB webtrader account as well, but I have a few (stupid) questions.

1) What is the process to transfer money overseas? Do you deposit it into the Webtrader account directly & SB then converts it to USD?
2) Is it fairly easy to buy etfs? I would like to buy 1 once every 2 months or so.
3) Does the account include historical performance of shares etc?
4) Are the trading fees % based or is the $20 the minimum trade value?
5) The monthly cost that you stated as 0.005%, is that the only cost or is there a Rand value monthly cost as well like the normal online share trading account @ SB?

It does seem to be one of the cheaper ways to invest offshore even though its more effort on my side...

Thanks in advance!
J

Hi J,

1. You have to fill in 2 documents at the branch. One for Standard Bank and one for the South African Reserve Bank. Its relatively straightforward, but you give the account number where the funds are held as well as the reference (ie your webtrader acc number). Standard Bank buy the dollars for you (at the current spot rate) and then transfer it to the account in the States.
2. Yes very easy, you type in the code, ie SCHD as I did, and execute the trade.
3. Good question, I haven't looked at what other info the account provides, I use Google to do international research. The webtrader platform is not in same league (wrt to research) as the JSE version that Standard Bank offers. The Webtrader webinars are really good I find.
4. Minimum trade value is $20. I haven't bought enough shares to see whether it becomes % based (That ZAR/USD  :mad: )
5. Its deducted from the webtrader account every month. The platform is totally independent from SA. You only get charged on the amounts invested. So if you have $10,000 in cash, you incur $0 in fees. If that $10,000 is invested in my case SCHD, its 0.005% of $10,000.

Webtrader announced on Thursday that they are launching EUR and British Pound accounts on 1 September so then you will be able to have multiple currency accounts. I wish this was the case last year when I started, because of the EUR/USD rate, im losing significant money on a specific share.

The other lesson I'll impart is that before you buy shares that yield dividends, you need to register the GlobeTax people that will recover tax between SA and USA (30% divi tax in the states) for you. They do not recover dividends that you have already received after registering with them. They also only recover tax from US based companies. They do recover from EU/British shares but the costs are INSANE (It was something like $300 for 3 years).

Hope this helps
C

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2015, 12:01:02 pm »
The DTA between USA and SA has a cap of 15% on dividends. You will need to ask your broker for the appropriate form to get the reduction from 30% to 15%.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

conradl

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2015, 01:07:07 pm »
 >:D
The DTA between USA and SA has a cap of 15% on dividends. You will need to ask your broker for the appropriate form to get the reduction from 30% to 15%.

That's why I mentioned Globetax, Standard Bank don't do it.

JohnnyH

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2015, 07:55:03 am »

Hi J,

1. You have to fill in 2 documents at the branch. One for Standard Bank and one for the South African Reserve Bank. Its relatively straightforward, but you give the account number where the funds are held as well as the reference (ie your webtrader acc number). Standard Bank buy the dollars for you (at the current spot rate) and then transfer it to the account in the States.
2. Yes very easy, you type in the code, ie SCHD as I did, and execute the trade.
3. Good question, I haven't looked at what other info the account provides, I use Google to do international research. The webtrader platform is not in same league (wrt to research) as the JSE version that Standard Bank offers. The Webtrader webinars are really good I find.
4. Minimum trade value is $20. I haven't bought enough shares to see whether it becomes % based (That ZAR/USD  :mad: )
5. Its deducted from the webtrader account every month. The platform is totally independent from SA. You only get charged on the amounts invested. So if you have $10,000 in cash, you incur $0 in fees. If that $10,000 is invested in my case SCHD, its 0.005% of $10,000.

Webtrader announced on Thursday that they are launching EUR and British Pound accounts on 1 September so then you will be able to have multiple currency accounts. I wish this was the case last year when I started, because of the EUR/USD rate, im losing significant money on a specific share.

The other lesson I'll impart is that before you buy shares that yield dividends, you need to register the GlobeTax people that will recover tax between SA and USA (30% divi tax in the states) for you. They do not recover dividends that you have already received after registering with them. They also only recover tax from US based companies. They do recover from EU/British shares but the costs are INSANE (It was something like $300 for 3 years).

Hope this helps
C

Hi Conrad

Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated. And thank you for the heads up on the EUR and GBP accounts, I will definitely take that into account as well.

I have one more question though if you don't mind, did you ever consider just buying one of the DBX etfs available before going the WebTrader route? It seems to give me pretty much the same thing, investing in the US/WD via etf, but quite a bit less effort from my side.

Thanks again

conradl

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2015, 05:39:01 pm »
Hi Conrad

Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated. And thank you for the heads up on the EUR and GBP accounts, I will definitely take that into account as well.

I have one more question though if you don't mind, did you ever consider just buying one of the DBX etfs available before going the WebTrader route? It seems to give me pretty much the same thing, investing in the US/WD via etf, but quite a bit less effort from my side.

Thanks again
J

We have been invested 100% in South Africa for 8 years (and a very good 8 that is) and decided to move some money offshore and invest it. The other reason was after a holiday in the states we realised how worthless the Rand has become which motivated us to move even more money overseas. You take the exchange rate knock really hard but you have to start somewhere. My mentor at work also advised having money offshore is never a bad thing. So the reasoning was to invest in ETF's not dependent on the Rand at all. So at the moment my dividends cover the fees and now to grow it, which is proving very challenging. SCHD has grown by appx 0%, my other shares are up 5% on EUR rate, excluding a 20% drop in EUR/USD exchange rate (this is the biggest lesson i've learnt...)

Ask as many questions as you like, I'm very keen to share what I know, even the little...  ;D

C


JohnnyH

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2015, 03:27:32 pm »
Hi Conrad

Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated. And thank you for the heads up on the EUR and GBP accounts, I will definitely take that into account as well.

I have one more question though if you don't mind, did you ever consider just buying one of the DBX etfs available before going the WebTrader route? It seems to give me pretty much the same thing, investing in the US/WD via etf, but quite a bit less effort from my side.

Thanks again
J

We have been invested 100% in South Africa for 8 years (and a very good 8 that is) and decided to move some money offshore and invest it. The other reason was after a holiday in the states we realised how worthless the Rand has become which motivated us to move even more money overseas. You take the exchange rate knock really hard but you have to start somewhere. My mentor at work also advised having money offshore is never a bad thing. So the reasoning was to invest in ETF's not dependent on the Rand at all. So at the moment my dividends cover the fees and now to grow it, which is proving very challenging. SCHD has grown by appx 0%, my other shares are up 5% on EUR rate, excluding a 20% drop in EUR/USD exchange rate (this is the biggest lesson i've learnt...)

Ask as many questions as you like, I'm very keen to share what I know, even the little...  ;D

C

Thanks for the feedback!

I am a bit unsure on when it would be a good time to move ZAR->USD, but I guess some months it would be expensive & other a little less so. I am looking to possible move R10k pm ( its really depressing that 10k is only worth ~790$ currently ) but I might do it every second month rather to minimise the admin. Its a pity that we can't transfer money in electronically & then just convert whenever I feel like it...

Btw, how did you decide on the SCHD etf? I will definitely only be buying US etfs initially so I am not too worried about the USD/EUR exchange rates.

Cheers
J

Lamak

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2015, 06:24:31 pm »
Hi. Just slightly off the gradient. Did any one think of investing in Mauritius?  I would like to know your thoughts...thanx

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2015, 08:18:32 pm »
I don't want to burst your bubble now but have you people thought this through? Has the $ gained in strength against all major currencies? If so, then the ZAR is not weakening as much as it looks on paper and will correct back down again. It might just be at the peak now and you will be buying the $ at a high.

When I last looked, the ZAR was depreciating at -3% pa and this is insignificant when you take into consideration that SA market as an emerging market by far outperforms developed markets.

Perhaps your view is politically motivated but SA has a very strict and solid financial system in place to the extent that the UK and USA sent representatives to study SA's SARS and SARB system after the 2008 fiasco.

You might have forgotten the 2008 bank implosion that never affected SA banks due to the strict regulations FSB has in place.

I could quite easily withdraw all my money with a simple email but I see SA as a more lucrative market to be in.





 





« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 08:25:19 pm by Orca »
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

jaDEB

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4551
  • Karma: +31/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2015, 08:58:09 pm »
Orca, as per your beautiful picture u showed of overlooking your area you posted previously, I thought I will take a picture of when I overlook my beautiful area.

Oh, wait, it is frikkin load shedding again.

jaDEB

If it scares you, it's a sign you need to do it

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2015, 09:59:29 pm »
If only we could invest in load shedding.  :TU:
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

conradl

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2015, 06:07:05 am »

Thanks for the feedback!

I am a bit unsure on when it would be a good time to move ZAR->USD, but I guess some months it would be expensive & other a little less so. I am looking to possible move R10k pm ( its really depressing that 10k is only worth ~790$ currently ) but I might do it every second month rather to minimise the admin. Its a pity that we can't transfer money in electronically & then just convert whenever I feel like it...

Btw, how did you decide on the SCHD etf? I will definitely only be buying US etfs initially so I am not too worried about the USD/EUR exchange rates.

Cheers
J

This is an interview (http://www.moneyweb.co.za/investing/offshore-investing/the-offshore-etfs-with-dividend-yields/) with Simon Brown on two offshore dividend ETF's. I chose the SCHD one because it was cheaper at $38 per share vs $74 per share. I'm not sure about the HDV, but SCHD pays divi's every quarter. I did look at the holdings and both are invested in Blue chip companies.

Wrt the USD/ZAR exchange rate I can't really comment on, but I'm not seeing the Rand getting better with this political climate...

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2015, 08:47:30 pm »
If you wish to invest in the Dollar then do so but keep in mind that the Dollar is at a high and should correct soon as it's gains have been overdone.
The normal depreciation of the ZAR is 2.5% pa according to MoneyWeb today.
Here is a 1 year chart of Euro/Zar that keeps me quite happy to live in Europe.

I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

indexer

  • I've just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2015, 08:21:52 am »
I have been using Standard Bank WebTrader since Dec last year. The Vangaurd VGK (FTSE Europe ETF) and VTI (Total Stock Market ETF) are still cheaper (considering you plan on holding for the long term) than the various DB-X trackers available locally even after you include the 20USD trading fee and the WebTrader platform fees.

I use Exchange4Free to move money into my WebTrader account. (https://exchange4free.co.za/) They have always provided me with better spot rates than any of the banks IF you buy for at least R100k. (No swift fees of extra commissions.) If I was going to move and invest amounts smaller than R100k I would rather just use a DBX tracker due to the bank changes you are going to incur.

Remember to register with GlobeTax to get the 15% div treaty rate. The registration is valid for 3 years but will cost you about R300 plus couriers fees to send the original signed document to New York.

The service from Standard Bank has been fantastic, you can email Sandesh at WebTrader and get almost immediate responses on questions.




JohnnyH

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2015, 07:50:05 pm »
I don't want to burst your bubble now but have you people thought this through? Has the $ gained in strength against all major currencies? If so, then the ZAR is not weakening as much as it looks on paper and will correct back down again. It might just be at the peak now and you will be buying the $ at a high.

When I last looked, the ZAR was depreciating at -3% pa and this is insignificant when you take into consideration that SA market as an emerging market by far outperforms developed markets.

Perhaps your view is politically motivated but SA has a very strict and solid financial system in place to the extent that the UK and USA sent representatives to study SA's SARS and SARB system after the 2008 fiasco.

You might have forgotten the 2008 bank implosion that never affected SA banks due to the strict regulations FSB has in place.

I could quite easily withdraw all my money with a simple email but I see SA as a more lucrative market to be in.

You make some very good points, thanks Orca.

My idea for investing offshore however is really just to diversify and to build up some assets in another currency.
Your comment on the EUR vs ZAR is also very interesting, it does seem a bit more "stable" or progressive than the USD.

The US stock market has been doing fairly well though vs the European markets, so I though that even if the Rand does strengthen markedly, the US investment should still grow at a fair pace.

Orca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2280
  • Karma: +54/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Anyone here invest offshore?
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2015, 09:46:34 pm »
The US is a developed market that under-performs emerging markets. Much like "how high can a high go when it is already in a high".
The $ is at a high and this could be detrimental in investing in the US at this stage. The market has had a surge since 2008 and is overpriced even now after a flat year. What if the $ and the market corrects? This will amplify your loss.

The EU is SA's biggest trading partner and the ZAR is pegged to the Euro. If you really have to move money out at this stage, then rather go for Euro stocks. I will in the mean time stay with growth stocks in SA.

The political factor might be your reasoning but corruption is rife even here in Europe. They may not throw chairs in parliament as in Japan but the sessions are a circus not unlike SA.

This is by no means advice but just my view so make your own choice.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 11:01:47 pm by Orca »
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.