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ETF shares are simply traded back and forth, through an exchange, between individual shareholders.
Therefore, there is no need to liquidate any of the ETF's holdings to pay sellers of ETF fund shares.

Not sure what your point is Orca - but with no restriction on buying or selling you can effectively trade in ETF, whereas you may not trade individual share counters. So the reality is that by trading/ churning ETF you are not deemed to be a trader in terms of the legislation, whereas you would if shares are traded under current circumstances and profits/losses are deemed income/expenditure

Curro going to market for another R 1 billion present p/e + 185. Another day at the races?

Bidvest is probably a good long term share to hold - as you say it just chugs along producing acceptable results year after year. When they spin their food operations out there may also be opportunities. I held DBXEU for over a year and they did not perform very well over this time so I sold and bought DBXWD which is faring better. So just my opinion on your considerations

Quote from: jaDEB on February 18, 2016, 11:48:16 am

"I won't ask jaDEB because he might suggest putting it all into one share or onto the roulette wheel" 

Believe it or not, I would suggest if it is "3,3m" she should go and see 2 independent financial advisor, and actual pay a small fee for good advice. That is how I feel about people that is at retirement phase, I would want her to have a good, no stress years ahead.

Or of course she can buy NPN 

You know I was kidding right? I had a feeling you'd be rather prudent for someone at that stage of life, but your advice of seeing two independent advisers is an excellent one. How do you make sure they're proper advisers, and not just product salesman. The only one I know of is Warren Ingram? Perhaps his company, Galileo Capital, might be a good place to find another.

Once the advisor has given his whole speel, then this person needs to ask one question - would you recommend your proposals to your father/mother and cover any major shortfalls. The real question is how convinced is he/she of their own recommendations.
I like Orca are opposed to REIT's and investments where the focus is on dividend streams. This person should invest on the basis of what can she invest in to give her an income stream to meet tax, medical aid and other expenditure on a monthly basis this may require the person to sell or realise cash to meet the next 12 months needs and invest this in a 32 day account (as an example at 7.10%, with the interest component being reinvested. Thus every 32 days notice can be given for the next 32 days capital needs so that the residual capital is always attracting interest and being reinvested. The remaining funds should be invested in the market either directly into shares which show a history of reasonable growth over the long term and the portfolio should be fairly diversified so that market volatility doesn't affect a very narrow portfolio holding. On my share portfolio I get between R 70,000 to R 80,000 per annum so it is something but nothing great but I could if I was this person hive off these dividends and put them to the 32 day account, thus requiring less of a share sale annually. Also the monthly requirement in terms of expenditure will increase over time so all things may be plain sailing now and for the next 2 years but CPI med aid, taxes municipal rates and taxes all go up and many great than simple CPI
Whoever this person speaks to in terms of advisors, the advisor needs to feel this person circumstances and have an acute understanding of what is likely to happen in the short term and medium term and that the portfolio set aside for growth really needs to achieve this objective consistently

I think one of the most important aspects of this whole thread is that it can't be a theoretically exercise and one solution is found there needs to be a number of solutions put forward and the person then makes a decision with the solution that best suites them and they are comfortable with

My circumstances are probably unique to me as I get a very good pension, but then I also have funds invested in U/T's, 32 day accounts, short term immediate access cash funds, and a L/A which I would prefer not to draw against but legally I have to. but, I am sure that we have many people on this forum who have uniquely specific strategies for investing who are retired - some who may be considered comfortable and others who may not be so comfortable   

Patrick - you have opened your account in the USA and have moved some funds offshore to fund the account.
Do the people you transferred the funds to; provide you with direct access to your current balance, and in what currency?. How frequently do you get a statement or can you get access over their platform and view your holding and currency balances whenever you wish to access their platform.
Do you initiate your buy/sell orders, or do you have to place an order with them, for them to place an order into the exchange?
Are the people you are dealing with creditable? - i,e, you don't lose any sleep at night around the safety of your funds?

Quote from: gcr on February 16, 2016, 02:47:10 pm

I am not sure what the value will be but what I suspect will happen is that those holders of the parent company will be offered shares in the new food company on a compensatory basis for the drop that will ultimately happen.

Surely we will land up with the 3 separately listed, companies viz: Bidvest Foodservices; Bidvest Industrial Holdings; Bidvest Capital Proprietary.
The book value of the 2 others will naturally be 'stripped out' of Foodservices. We can then decide which of the entities we would like to hold;
maybe only Foodservices, and sell the others. I don't understand this 'compensatory' part you refer to.

I am not sure how they will restructure but here's an option that they could follow:-
Determine the value of the food industry component against the sum of the parts e.g. food segment may constitute 20% of the sum of the parts, but the holding company holds 50% for the spun off entity. Thus only 10% is available to the market. So what they could do is say that the food component represents 10% of the sum of the parts and you as a share holder of Bidvest get one share in the food operation for every 10 Bidvest shares held. This then allows the Bidvest share price to sink by the value of the shares allocated in the food segment. The other option is that they actually reduce your holding in Bidvest commensurate with the shares issued in the food section on a Rand value basis converted to a share number
This is pure speculation as to how they may handle the unbundling 

Quote from: gcr on February 16, 2016, 02:47:10 pm

I am not sure what the value will be but what I suspect will happen is that those holders of the parent company will be offered shares in the new food company on a compensatory basis for the drop that will ultimately happen.
I do think there is a bigger play going on in the background with Bidvest, as all previous deals have been brought into the conglomerate and managed from under that umbrella, and this is somewhat of a contrary move by the Bidvest board
The dilemma is whether to buy more Bidvest shares now or wait until after the unbundling where prices may be keener

Thanks for the reply gcr.

I don't think that now ( at least for me ) would be the right time to buy BVT. It is currently on a PE of ~19-20 which for me, is too high. I have decided to wait until it gets closer to 15-16.

On your point of buying after the unbundling, I would have thought that prices would be higher following this. To me it seems that generally when something "new" happens, everyone wants to buy it.

That's the point hold off a week or two for fund managers to do their assessment as to true worth. Two companies which I can point to are Clover and Holdsport.
On the other matter of too higher a P.E rating for Bidvest don't get over concerned - if we were talking Steinhoff or Curro I would advise caution - but Bidvest apply a different business model

I am not sure what the value will be but what I suspect will happen is that those holders of the parent company will be offered shares in the new food company on a compensatory basis for the drop that will ultimately happen.
I do think there is a bigger play going on in the background with Bidvest, as all previous deals have been brought into the conglomerate and managed from under that umbrella, and this is somewhat of a contrary move by the Bidvest board
The dilemma is whether to buy more Bidvest shares now or wait until after the unbundling where prices may be keener