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Quote from: gcr on December 07, 2016, 07:19:21 pm

MC - I think that is a matter of opinion and what your current debt is. I would never use my capital to buy a big ticket item (house or car) use the banks money, but manage you repayments/interest rate/ additional deposits. My view is that once you erode your capital to pay for these items you seldom have the discipline to build the capital back up again

The idea that debt is good is unfortunately a myth that is very prevalent in our society planted in our brains by clever marketing people who want to sell us stuff even if we don't have the money to buy it right now...

There are in fact several benefits to NOT having debt:

1. If you don't have a massive car payment and a massive house payment it is very EASY to build up capital.
2. Debt is the PRODUCT that banks sell and I don't like supporting banks.
3. Less stress, because you don't need to make those massive payments every bloody month.
4. You can retire earlier if you don't have a house and/or car payments. Invested capital gives 4% (trinity studies), but house (-10%) and car loans (-13%).
5. You need a smaller emergency fund, so less money needed in cash where it is not earning much.
6. You will tend to spend less if you buy cash. Spending cash hurts. This is why most beemers are bought with loans...
7. If you buy cash you can negotiate a better price than with a loan.
8. Less homework. Car loan statements and doing the payments is not fun.

MC - all your points are brutally practical and have merit, but, there are a few real live experiences that a young person faces when fleeing the nest of the parents. They get themselves a job with the aim of accumulating capital to buy the 1st house/car - they have to have a roof over their head so the choices are remain at home and pay rent or get a place and pay rent. These rent payments have a tendency to decrease the capital saved. I suppose if you live like a Trappist monk you may be able to save your fun capital. Salaries are pretty poor when you start work only really incrementing when you gain experience, knowledge and improve your educational levels. I wonder how long it would take a new employee to accumulate sufficient funds to meet the cash requirements of a flat or second hand car as a starter pack in life, You seem to have an aversion to banks and their policies on lending but having been in banking for 40 years there are two sides to an equation - the people over borrow have themselves to blame as they are not exercising any for of money management or prudence.
Anyway don't want to hijack this thread too much, lets just leave it that we have differing opinion on debt and the use/non use of it as a financial management process 

There are a few things which could alter the exchange rate quite a bit:- Zuma getting recalled due to his 783 charges being instituted, the Con Court making a ruling on the PP's State of Capture report. Zuma being replaced by another next December at the ANC convention and very dependent on who it is, the ratings agencies seeing no improvement in the political situation by next year and then downgrading the country

A dog can hear sounds that are 100 times fainter than the faintest sounds that a person can hear. If a person can just hear a noise that is coming from 10 feet away, a dog could hear that same noise from 100 feet away

Well I don't know whether that is true or not - my wife heard me and was waiting at the front door when I came home in the early hours of the morning, and I know I tried to be like a ghost

Why are UK taxi roof's so high?

To keep passengers above the waterline on mud island no doubt

Don't know how many forumites hold Rhodes Food Group (RFG), but I do - not a lot 1,500. The company announced a book build exercise this week where they were offering up 25 million shares to institutional investors, but, not to ordinary shareholders. Today they announced the successful placement of all shares at an agreed price of R 26.50 being a 2.3% discount to the 30 day weighted average price. These shares will now rank alongside the ordinary shares and will enjoy any dividends going forward.
I find these types of book build exercises most disingenuous given that ordinary shareholders can't apply in the first instance, secondly the allocation is done at a discount, and thirdly they will enjoy dividends like the excluded shareholders all from a smaller pot of dividend funds. To my mind the shares should have been taken up at a premium so that the ordinary shareholders are compensated in a sense for lose of dividend value.
But hey I suppose that's how the big businesses roll these days - screw the smaller shareholders. This does have a downside of course in that the JSE will not be able to encourage small investors to invest in the JSE boards - in fact our private individual investment in the bourse is nowhere near what the private investment is in say the NYSE, or even the LSE
Just my thoughts on a ticklish issue   

Orca - all strength to you and your wife, and, may she recover shortly. Must be very distressing to your whole family - Graham

I bought most of my STXIND in June 2013 (I sold out of the DIVI as it was going nowhere) and to date have shown a price improvement of 41%. I have a view that if the economy is to improve it will happen firstly in the retail sector, then followed by the industry/manufacturers who will have to ramp up product to meets sales demands. However I am also mindful of new car sales as this is also an indicator (when volumes increase) that the economy is on the mend - currently new car sales are still in the doldrums so I can't see the economy improving in the short term. And of course the political set up is not very encouraging at present, if Zuma had to go soon then we may see a substantial turn around in our economy, and we may see different trading partnerships being developed as is happening in Brazil currently