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Messages - Mr_Dividend

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571
Shares / Re: My retirement blog.
« on: April 21, 2015, 02:39:17 pm »
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This too is my path :) I wish to follow. 35. House is paid off, 3 rentals (2 are townhouses(bonded) and 1 is cottage on paid off property), in the process of acquiring a 2nd easy to run small business. I'm all for easy to manage passive income streams with minimal effort. I'm starting to realize it's rare where you see the returns else where like in profitable small businesses started or bought at the right price, although let me say finding them is a task on it's own. Stock market and property included.

I think a separate early retirement thread is a great idea Patrick, especially for those that have done it. Would love to hear Mr_Dividends story too and ask questions as they come to mind.

Some business's are more passive than others! What where you thinking of for the second stream? Always thought a DVD rental shop in the right area would be about as easy a business to run as you could get. As to actual property to let, done well I am sure it's great. Prefer listed property although yields are slightly lower initially, but I like their liquidity, wide risk base and faster capital growth on the whole. Not having someone telling you that the geyser has blown in the middle of the night or worse, they've lost their job and have no intention of moving out  - that just a bonus. I know one guy that only takes government employees with housing allowances (get's paid directly and seldom fired) and it seems to work well.

I always like to have, back up plans - one very viable one is that is that although our house is not particular big, the plot (also not particularly big at just over 700m2)  stretches road to road - and at the back have a large 85m2 brick workshop with obviously it's own entrance and parking. Could make two quite nice self catering units - which I understand is needed in this town, and would be fairly busy. But having had an (largely unsuccessful) B&B before, I would rather that garage was filled with tools and wood than guests. But the idea is there and the ROI would be pretty decent as it's paid off. Might be a plan if my wife decided she did not need her studio (2 garages we had in front) and they could become my work shop.

572
Shares / Re: Early retirement
« on: April 21, 2015, 01:05:04 pm »
You probably right Patrick - only funnily enough, only had CG explained to me this weekend, up and till then thought it was around 30% of all gains over R30K. Aaah, they joys of being slightly naive! But ja, on my low to no tax, CG is no big deal. And as you say, you could score VS dividend withholding tax.

But one thing you are not looking at is dividends(factual) and share prices(sentiment to a point) are worked out. Even with a market correction, you have a fair idea of what dividend MPC will pay next year - could you be so confident to say what the share price would be? To smooth out the curve you might feel the need to keep more cash or heaven forbid, a couple of years expenses in bonds! So we could get to some lost opportunity cost of setting the div tax.

But you are right, have plans to use my TFSA for dividends - (rather like grinrod div ETF) - but will hopefully dilute the 15% somewhat.

573
Shares / Re: Early retirement
« on: April 21, 2015, 11:49:44 am »
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I guess it all comes down to what retirement means to you.  Some find their bliss in being free, creative, self-sustaining or whatever floats their boat and that’s how it should be. 

Personally, retirement for me would mean travelling the world and funding & getting involved in worthwhile expeditions.  I’ll start at Alaska and work my way through, obviously making stops in Monaco and Aspen just to balance my Zen-side with my material needs.  I can literally hear Patrick rolling his eyes. ::)

Good luck MrD, you seem content and happy and I'm sure many on this forum envy you and will follow your lead.

Cheers - early days, will see how it goes. But I would like to travel a bit more. While in the UK a did see a bit of Europe, Asia, Middle East and Australia. But would love to do some more - it irritates me that after spending 10 years in London I did not go to Kew Gardens or Wimbledon. At the timed seemed a bit pricey.

Selling up and doing an Orca certainly get's the imagination going though. Mine would have to include a camper van though...

574
Shares / Re: My retirement blog.
« on: April 21, 2015, 11:38:19 am »
Ja, get where you coming from - but I would find it had to have all my capital in SA, hell, most of us are trying to get some of it out!

575
Shares / Re: Early retirement
« on: April 21, 2015, 11:36:19 am »
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I unfortunately cannot live on divies and need capital growth. At this stage, I get about R80k divies pa and I need R140k to live pa.

As to property, here is an example of an apartment here in Viana.  http://www.custojusto.pt/viana-do-castelo/apartamentos/apartamento-t2-11702632

€35k is rather cheap plus it has all the main appliances and furnishings. I pay €375.00 pm rent but have no garden to keep myself busy.

Ok, so draw down in capital is not too large - pretty manageable. Flat wise looks quite similar to what you get for similar money in the Cape hey? Although you normally get around 80m2 for a two bed. Is buying still part of the picture? Did you learn Portuguese before going/ or having lesson now? Personally, I find new languages extremely hard to learn. After umpteen years learning Afrikaans at school, Afrikaans father and now living in an Afrikaans dorpie - I can barely string two words together.

576
Shares / Re: My retirement blog.
« on: April 21, 2015, 06:59:39 am »
Orca, still interested to know what your reasoning is with regards to leaving your money in SA Vs taking it out and investing it somewhere in Europe? For me, I would worry about the exchange rate as well as access to my money. For me, there would be plenty of companies over there that pay decent dividends.

http://www.topyields.nl/Top-dividend-yields-of-STOXX-Europe-Dividend-30.php

577
Shares / Re: Early retirement
« on: April 21, 2015, 06:46:11 am »
Cheers Orca - that INDI looks very good. Have actually sold 30K from my main account and am transferring it over to invest mainly in the INDI. I would not be able to only invest in it as it's divi is too low initially. As to the 4% rule, I agree - might be more appropriate to the States and Europe, slower more established economies. And, as you say, guys with cash and bonds - personally I do not see the point. I do have around 30% in listed property though - might actually up this in the future as it's earnings are tax free - for me anyway (23k interest cap as well as your first R72K)

But to save me all the maths the dividend approach works for me - impossible for me to ever run out as I am not using the capital, very rare that a company stops paying a dividend and for most, even in a market pull back, the dividend usually increases. BUT just in case, my portfolio is pretty diverse across sectors and companies to try alleviate any single company having a bad year. I can be a bit of a worrier - but this way I have not had one iota of doubt. Working 1 year in arrears also helps - would be really tough to do month to month. For instance, all the dividends from 1 Sep 2014 to the end of August 2015 are used for the 6 months starting Sep 2015 - sitting at around R25k at the moment, so at the least have R4K a month so far.

Orca, in one post you mentioned you might buy a flat? Thought this would be an odd move, as it would make a fair dent in your capital as well as tie you down a bit. Are you still looking? Personally I would move around a bit, see Europe for a few years before picking a place to settle for a bit - find a good fishing spot! I would be tempted to use a camper van.

578
Shares / Re: Early retirement
« on: April 20, 2015, 07:55:39 pm »
Ok this is the last little bit - more on the life I was picturing for myself a couple of years back. But back to money (or lack of it!) - I do realise that things happen and things break and occasionally I would require more than my monthly "allowance". This is taken care of by another, separate stock account that is not geared for dividends and have no problem selling and trading them - this is sitting at just over R60K and has come from stock I did not get to sell when closing the shop and have sold online - still quite a bit to go and will easily have R100K by the time I'm done - so do have a bit of a cushion in case something fairly large happens.

Again, it's a bit of a vasbyt situation - the longer I get into to it the better.

Then, the idea is not to give up work altogether, but eventually find a hobby that I can make a bit of holiday cash off - I have a decent size workshop filled with some decent second hand woodworking/ woodturning equipment. Plus want to build a forge and play with metal sculpture as well as paint. I figure it should not be too hard to make 2 - 3k a month selling items that I have created/ reclaimed at arts and crafts fairs, hopefully just 1 to 2 a month and maybe a few more over Christmas. But am not in any rush to get that going, have taken quite a while sorting out my garage (insulating and french cleating it) - It's a nice size ( 4 car) so have space to play!

Also, of course, saving money is sometimes better than earning money - and I quite enjoy vegetable gardening and I see a couple of micro businesses in there - I certainly wouldn't want any to become a "job" - just selling a bit here and there.

It's certainly not a life for everyone, and I am sure many will scoff at the budget - there are obviously no new BM's or holiday homes on the horizon, and I think the fact I am not aiming for one sometimes throws people off. But , luckily for me, I seem to get pleasure out of more mundane things - making a bowl on the lathe, jumping on the bike for our Sunday ride to some Western Cape dorpie or making a batch of pear fruit leather. Don't get me wrong, if I had more money I would happily spend it and I fully realise that if I did not have any spare money I would also not be happy. But for me, working my butt of for certain things is just not worth it - I would rather have the free time. Even if last week I spent hours watching tennis on the couch with my dogs and the business day for company, loved it. Bring on the French Open.

579
Shares / Re: Early retirement
« on: April 20, 2015, 04:58:56 pm »
The joys of DIY - replaced thermostat with a bit of trial and error and R300 - ouch. Seems to work, but lately I have found stoves are one of the few electrical items that can sort of work, anywhere between 40 - 70% . Whereas other things ether work, or they don't. Oh well, will find something to chuck in the oven in the next few days.

But it did make me think. One of the many great things about retiring early are the little achievements(read jobs) you have time to do -small, not very important maybe, but after doing them you can give yourself a mental high five and have a slight grin on your face when going to bed.

580
Shares / Re: Early retirement
« on: April 20, 2015, 02:18:36 pm »
Part two.

So started a very small shop about 8 years ago - and, through a bit of trail and error learn't a few important things. The owner is the last person to be paid - and I mean, the VERY last. In fact, if you do not make the effort, you might not get paid at all! Although I did reinvest all profits back into the business, which is good to a point, at some time you do need to start taking some out and setting it aside - I did not.

I also found out I was a better manager than owner when staff where concerned - bit soft really. I am also fairly lazy so some checks and balances where throw out the window. I am a good buyer though and have an ok "small business brain" - so did grow my one shop into three and into better locations. And then closed them all - in the reverse of how I opened them. No 3 was closed purely because of staff, 2 was the gold mine but closed when two large chain stores moved in. So I was left with shop one, the first one and a hell of a lot of stock (1mill plus)that came from the other two and still had a year and a half to go on the lease and carrying around R300K worth of stock debt.

Now around this time I found out that my farther was going to make my sister and I beneficiaries in a smallish trust my grandfather had set up - rather nice of him. Paid out 30K in 2013, 40k in 2014 and 2015. It looks like this is set to continue for a while, but my farther has first dibs if he needs it - so not guaranteed, but a handy about of cash.

So I started doing calculations to see if i could survive not working - and how much I would need to invest and what return I could expect. But more importantly, finding out how much I need to live - as luck would have it, not much. I have never had a store card in my life and the only debt have ever had has been linked to my shop. With a bit of trial and error I have found R5500 p/m does the trick nicely. I do though have medical aid - which would probably be good, but the local hospital is fine for most things and have a private clinic that charge R350 per visit including medication - think I've been twice in 8 years or so.

That R5500 includes a bike ride to a spur for sunday breakfast every week and we normally can squeeze in one comedy/ classical or Jazz night in CT. Basically gets divided into R600 p/w (food/spur/petrol) R1200 p/m (insurance/rates/elect/dstv/internet) - gives around R1700 for that big OTHER category (gifts/DIY/monthly outing).

But as said, no holiday cash or medical aid. And please note, my wife still works from home and has no intention of retiring, nor would she have anything to do if she did - and all bills are split, so we are actually spending double on the figures quoted above.

Now I give my wife 10% of what I get from the trust and I need R5500 per month so R5500 x 12 = R66 000 per year -  R36K (R40K - 10%) - I need to generate R30K per year out of what I could salvage out of the last shop. I figured with a bit of luck I could squeeze R500K out of it (after paying expenses and stock debt and car debt) I with a bit of luck get 5% of dividends using a mix of REITs ( at around 6 - 8%) and decent dividend paying shares ( at 3 - 5%) and this would give me 5%.

I am not sure why I decided the dividend approach "clicked" with me - I know it doesn't really matter, but the fact I am not selling the capital really makes sense and just sit's well with me. Also I think I worked it off R5K per month - so it did work on paper. i have only recently found the extra R500 p/m makes it all work well - funny how a relatively small amount makes quite a difference

Anyway - after making a spreadsheet with my new financial goals, set about putting it into action - and I am happy to say it all worked quite well. Ended up putting in R650K into my main account (did include around R60k from the trust) so an ok but not great return from my original investment - I did spend a bit on the house adding pool and walls and lot's of other bits/ and very full wood workshop - I am not a minimalist at all. Plus got an old motor bike and a new bakkie that should last me 20 or so years.

Have been retired just over 6 months - the R650K has grow to R900K (but was invest monthly from 2 years ago, so very hard to work out a yearly return - plus way more came at the end as debt was paid). So far this year it is on 12% - I do not expect or need it to shoot the lights out, but 15% per year on the capital would be great. I am more interested in the dividend obviously - and that is what I look for in SENS. I hope that dividends out strip inflation and essentially I get richer as I get older -  ;D I work on 6 months/ 6 months - 1 being the trust and 2 being all the dividends for a year.

Now I need to go my a thermostat for my oven - cannot handle burn't muffins anymore, part three later.

581
Shares / Early retirement
« on: April 20, 2015, 07:49:57 am »
As a couple of guys asked what was my story I thought I would tack it on to this thread as it seemed appropriate.

I am 41, married no kids (but two lovely dogs), house paid and retired. As I have never been paid much - quite a bit of luck has got me to this point, but also a healthy dose of financial planning/ or at least frugality. Firstly I have always been a good saver and at an early age could not see the point of only saving 10% - at that rate it would take forever to save for anything meaningful. I have always worked and made my pocket money - started pushing trolleys at the local OK at around 12 on holidays - eventually graduating to my paper route (business day and ST - BD is still my favourite newspaper, ST is now a tabloid IMO). Anyway, always had jobs often two, and with it saved and bought all that I needed - unfortunately a lesson that I did not learn - saving IS NOT investing. Personally there should be a clear distinction between the two, as they have two very different uses. As said, I have always been a good saver, had I been a good investor - well, I would be sitting pretty pretty.

Let's fast forward here otherwise this could take forever! About 13 years ago got married in the UK to a Cape Town lass and we started saving together for a house/ shack in Spain/France - deciding that country living would be great having watched a few TV series and read a few books. Took around 2 years of long hours, often weekends and we had around 20,000 pounds - by that time we had seen that we could buy a better condition house in a rural setting in the Western Cape. So we took a holiday, rented a car and visited a few places we had seen on the internet. We settled on one in a tiny village about a hour and a bit outside CT - cost us R280,000. For that we got a huge house that had been used as a B&B and large 6000m2 plot. But wiped us out financially and we had to go back to work for a year to get the cash for car, fridge and the bit's need to make it into a B&B. Unfortunately it never really worked and although we had a happy couple of years, we were broke at the end, but the property price had shot up and I sold it privately (for cash in a week) for 1.6mill - this was my first bit of luck.

We used half for our new house (sold house on Sunday/bought new house on Monday/ cash was in my account on Wednesday/ house was transferred in one month - all in all a very quick sale) BTW we received 1.2mil straight away, the rest came later as had divided the property and that took ages and some engineering works - after that and various fees I guess we came out with 1.5mil. Anyway, new house was 800k pretty much spit the R400k, wife made a studio( she works from home), bought a car, chewed through a bit of money before buying some shares after a year of pestering her (she would have got Capitec at under R100, instead of the R140 she paid) and I used my half to open a shop - something I always wanted. I have, unfortunately, always been in retail - after the food industry, I think the kakkiest sector to be in - long hours/low wages - yippee.

Part two later - I type with two fingers - so this is taking a while.

582
Shares / Re: Easy Equities, any opinions?
« on: April 19, 2015, 07:17:45 am »
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I'm still trying to get a listing of which ETFs they offer, because if I read the rules right then the Indi shouldn't be allowed as I thoughtthere was a restriction that the fund couldn't old more than 10% in any one company, and the Indi has 17% NPN at the moment. I've asked for clarification on this so I'll update you as things move along.

Interested in the above - makes sense, but where did you find that Patrick?

They also include the New Funds eRAFI IND which has a massive 35% MTN weighting.  (also see eRAFI FINI has 25 OML) http://etfcib.absa.co.za/Fund%20Documents/eRafi%20Indi%20Datasheet%20%2031%20March%202014.pdf

It would not surprise me if easyequities has got it wrong - as mentioned above they did not seem to understand that dividend with holding tax did not apply to a REIT.

I wondering if a person want to include the SATRIX indi it might be best to balance it out with 1/2 other ETF's to balance out the NPN weighting so you could argue that overall NPN (or any other) weighting was below 10%.

And before I forget, easyequities do not seem to answer emails - at least they never answered the two I sent.

Found that ETFSA also include the satrix indi in one of their tax free portfolios - mixed with others though.

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http://www.etfsa.co.za/docs/Tax_free/Tax%20Free%20Brochure_02.pdf

583
Shares / Re: CML
« on: April 18, 2015, 07:43:19 pm »
I have CML to release a trading update on the 24th or (because of the ph 28)? Not sure where I am getting that from, but I guess previous SENS?

I am expecting pretty decent results for the simple reason that CML is a proxy for the market. Market did badly last year - CML lagged, yet the market has done well this year but CML has still flat lined.

Gut says we will see a jump soon to R125 - R130 level - after this trading statement.

Could be wishfull thinking - I have over 10% in CML.

If not I'll pull out my sour grapes card and say I'm in it for the dividend, which I am....  8)

584
Shares / Re: My retirement blog.
« on: April 18, 2015, 07:32:03 pm »
Very interesting reading Orca - have a ton of questions - I am in a very similar situation. Bit younger at 41 but also retired with a similar stash

And now I have a ton of questions, you should have your own thread!

Found your blog very interesting - you are a very entertaining writer and have obviously read MMM. I already had formulated my "perfect" life long before finding his site - but was nice to find a group with similar objectives. Haven't found many South Africans that would consider retiring early and living off less - we seem to really like our glitzy baubles and have no problem using debt to purchase them and working long to fund that debt.

585
Shares / Re: My retirement blog.
« on: April 17, 2015, 05:09:57 pm »
Very interesting reading Orca - have a ton of questions - I am in a very similar situation. Bit younger at 41 but also retired with a similar stash - wife still works from home though. Also loving it.

Doing it again, would it not be best taking all/part of you money out an investing in the EU? I am guessing it's a toss up - tax and nice growth in SA VS really being on the edge when it comes to currency movements. No good doing well in SA if the rand plummets!

I am impressed that you lived on around R12K p/m - I am around that but with a house paid of.  What is it costing you roughly to live there now?

In case you haven't - great link with similar minded people moneymustache.com

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