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General Category => Off topic => Topic started by: Patrick on November 23, 2015, 09:48:00 pm

Title: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on November 23, 2015, 09:48:00 pm
Looking to take my 1 bar discretionary allowance to my offshore brokerage. FNB wants more in fees than I'm happy with, has anyone got any good tips on the most cost effective way to do that?
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Moneypenny on November 24, 2015, 08:53:53 am
Don’t know TBH, pro’s handling ours – if nobody can't help you here, you can always try deep web for ideas.  :-X
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Fawkes85 on November 25, 2015, 08:08:02 am
Tried Skrill?
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on November 25, 2015, 08:23:13 am
Ok so I've spent the day on google, and run a few currency conversion comparison sites like this: https://www.fxcompared.com/money-transfer/South-Africa-USA?amount=100000&bType=1&aDir=0&ref=filter

CurrencyFair seems to keep coming up cheapest, but I'd still like to chat to someone in who's used them before deciding. The rates are reasonable, far better than the banks of course. A few people on the myBB forum also suggested exchange4free, but I haven't seen if they quote their rates online.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on November 26, 2015, 11:32:59 am
Ok so CurrencyFair looked good until I tried to make the deposit when I noticed that their Rand based account is listed in London (but in Rand). So I would need to get my bank to transfer there which I can't figure out. Under the regular transfer page I can't enter SWIFT codes etc, and under the forex page I can't pay in Rand. Also I'd have to pay nedbank a 0.4% fee because they act as an intermediary somehow???

So that lead to me looking into Exchange4Free and Currencies Direct. Both have offices in SA and both seem to charge 1% more than the mid market rates. BUT here's where things got interesting. Both would require me to open a no-fee trading account with Mercantile bank, where there are no fees for transactions over R50000...

Now what I'm wondering, is if I could cut out the middle man and open the account with Mercantile myself, and then use them to do the trade and then transfer to the USA. Anyone tried anything like this? I don't think anyone here has opened up to being a currency trader, so I'm not sure if this has been tried. Anyone?
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Strive on January 26, 2016, 10:19:13 am
Hi Patrick - did you ever find out more about this? I'm also wondering if it'd be a good idea to get some assets as far as away from SA as possible, but it does seem like the usual suspects charge an arm and a leg for the privilege.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on January 26, 2016, 02:20:47 pm
I'm down to Exchange4Free and Currencies Direct. Both seem to charge midmarket +1%, so you'll end up paying R10k on R1m. Pity I didn't do that in November already!!!

There are cheaper exchange places available, but none I've found with an SA account for taking deposits yet. Mercantile said they don't assist individuals, only companies. If you have a company then they will give you an account for R35 a month, and can change money for as little as midmarket + 0.1%.

I've considered bitcoin, but I don't trust it enough at the moment.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: gcr on February 17, 2016, 03:15:09 pm
Patrick - you have opened your account in the USA and have moved some funds offshore to fund the account.
Do the people you transferred the funds to; provide you with direct access to your current balance, and in what currency?. How frequently do you get a statement or can you get access over their platform and view your holding and currency balances whenever you wish to access their platform.
Do you initiate your buy/sell orders, or do you have to place an order with them, for them to place an order into the exchange?
Are the people you are dealing with creditable? - i,e, you don't lose any sleep at night around the safety of your funds?

Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: JDP on February 23, 2016, 11:28:29 pm
And opening that overseas bank account, man its difficult to find proper info on this, if indeed you find any.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on February 27, 2016, 03:35:12 pm
Patrick - you have opened your account in the USA and have moved some funds offshore to fund the account.
Do the people you transferred the funds to; provide you with direct access to your current balance, and in what currency?. How frequently do you get a statement or can you get access over their platform and view your holding and currency balances whenever you wish to access their platform.
Do you initiate your buy/sell orders, or do you have to place an order with them, for them to place an order into the exchange?
Are the people you are dealing with creditable? - i,e, you don't lose any sleep at night around the safety of your funds?
I'm a little different to most here gcr, I opened a bank account in the states through my employer, it's one of the perks of the job. They're also putting 50% of my salary into that account every month. I asked for 100%, but they said no. They have agreed to put all my travel money in there too. What I'm left with is my local investments dividends, and what remains on my local half of my salary. I live on a lot less than half my salary (my wife calls me cheap sometimes, but I think she doesn't understand frugality).

For the first few months of the year my money will go into my and my son's TFSA, from then onwards I'll have to put it into ETFs. Then I need to figure out when to take it offshore. I was getting tempted again at the lower levels of R15, but then we had budget and the Pravin/Zuma fight. I want the dust to settle there before doing anything.

I've looked onto every possible way I could think of for getting money offshore. It's still looking like exchange4free is the cheapest. Bitcoin doesn't work for us, as bitcoins are about 10% more expensive in SA than offshore. That's great if you want to bring money into SA, but terrible taking it out!

I did find someone who wanted about $2000 worth of Rand they had in a paypal account, so we traded at the mid-market rate. If only I could find more people who want Rand in an SA bank account for their dollars.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: bw on March 02, 2016, 10:45:10 am
subscribed
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: erwintwr on May 13, 2016, 12:10:14 pm
Hi Patrick


any updates on this?   Think you wanted to make a blog post about the process as well.



apologies if i overlooked it somewhere :o
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on May 13, 2016, 03:58:40 pm
Still nothing I'm afraid. The cheapest option I've found is still exchange4free with a 1% margin on the mid market rate. Not bad, but I would have preferred better.

I keep hoping that currencyfair will have a local Rand account for deposits. Instead all they have is a london based Rand account. The other peer to peer transfer services don't take rand deposits at all, so they're out. It's a pity, as a peer to peer transfer is perfect. Money doesn't actually even change borders, so in theory you can circumvent exchange laws. I did write to them, and received this reply:
Quote
Hi Patrick, you would need to transfer to our London based ZAR account, and use the Intermediary details provided for the international transfer part of the process. You should check with you bank if they will allow you to do this. If you have any specific questions it may be best to email us on [email protected] - Kevin
The intermediary is nedbank, and they seem to take a 0.4% cut, so in the end the transaction ends up at a similar level to just using exchange4free.

Once I have a reasonable cost method that I've actually used I'll do the blog post.


Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Whichofsuch on December 20, 2016, 09:30:34 am
OZ forex has a sister company called Canadian Forex which i have had the most success with. The best rates obviously come with the bigger transfers. best I have had @ 0.016%, then there is a small fee to accept the payment from your destination bank which seems to be consistently around R180-R250 in South Africa.

They also trade the currency before it arrives at your bank, saving you the cost that your bank would charge for the conversion.. I sure Recommend them and their professionalism, especially after the call you to approve the transaction!

I am looking for a good resource on the rules about foreign nationals and expats that work out of the country for more than half of the year( 180 days), mostly tax implications etc.

Any help is appreciated,

Thanks
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on December 20, 2016, 10:10:53 am
OZ forex has a sister company called Canadian Forex which i have had the most success with.
Was that just for ZAR to CAD or do they do other currencies too?
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Whichofsuch on December 21, 2016, 06:21:31 am
Was that just for ZAR to CAD or do they do other currencies too?
[/quote]

Canadian Forex seems to deal with mostly American and European monies. Oz Forex is bigger and may delve into Asia and a few emerging markets..
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: conradl on December 21, 2016, 08:11:13 am
Anyone tried this: https://www.clickfx.co.za/

An article in the Moneyweb Investor Monthly on this website. They're main business is doing foreign exchange transfers for companies but have recently started doing transfers for the public. I'm curious about the fees but the houses arent forthcoming in this regard...
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on December 21, 2016, 08:43:46 am
Anyone tried this: https://www.clickfx.co.za/

An article in the Moneyweb Investor Monthly on this website. They're main business is doing foreign exchange transfers for companies but have recently started doing transfers for the public. I'm curious about the fees but the houses arent forthcoming in this regard...
Not yet, I'm planning on it for next years discretionary allowance. Had quite a few email back and forths with them. Basically they do mid-market + 0.5% + R350 per transfer. I generally transfer R100k at a time, so with them the total fees will be R850 while with exchange4free it will be R1000 (they do midmarket + 1%).
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: andre on October 09, 2017, 06:22:17 pm
Anyone tried this: https://www.clickfx.co.za/

An article in the Moneyweb Investor Monthly on this website. They're main business is doing foreign exchange transfers for companies but have recently started doing transfers for the public. I'm curious about the fees but the houses arent forthcoming in this regard...
Not yet, I'm planning on it for next years discretionary allowance. Had quite a few email back and forths with them. Basically they do mid-market + 0.5% + R350 per transfer. I generally transfer R100k at a time, so with them the total fees will be R850 while with exchange4free it will be R1000 (they do midmarket + 1%).

It's now possible to "Request an Indication Rate" ClickFX.co.za which according to my checks sits around 0.7% (ish)
That beats most banks by at least 1.5-2.0 %

Any feedback on their service?


Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: andre on October 10, 2017, 08:54:20 am
I ran a quick comparison between my banks Swift option vs ClickFX vs Exchange4Free
Minimum amount 100k as this is where Exchange4Free waives fees - the assumption is they offer 1% on midrate (as based on Patricks feedback but it's not verified).
On avg ClickFX offers around 0.75% on midmarket rate  with a fixed fee of R350


(https://s1.postimg.cc/6my09bde5b/Capture100k.jpg) (https://postimages.cc/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/2lm0uxbvdr/Capture200k.jpg) (https://postimages.cc/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/4yonc4q3zz/Capture300k.jpg) (https://postimages.cc/)


Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: andre on October 18, 2017, 09:53:31 am
Thought you guys would be interested in some feedback.
Made a 300k transfer this week with ClickFX and this is how it stacked up as compared to SWIFT and Exchange4Free:

(https://s1.postimg.cc/6h93enx18v/Capture.jpg) (https://postimages.cc/)
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on October 18, 2017, 09:56:11 am
That's a really good deal. I've switched to using clickfx for all my transfers all the time now too. Nikita is also really easy to deal with. Maybe I should do a blog post called "Only idiots transfer money overseas using their banks"!
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: andre on October 18, 2017, 09:58:18 am
That's a really good deal. I've switched to using clickfx for all my transfers all the time now too. Nikita is also really easy to deal with. Maybe I should do a blog post called "Only idiots transfer money overseas using their banks"!

 :TU:
There's not a lot of info out there and it would be a great resource for anyone looking at the same.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on October 30, 2017, 02:35:54 pm
Andre, I've just checked my most recent transfer with clickfx for +-$9400 and saw that $15 less than indicated is what I have in my US bank account. I checked the previous times and it was the same except for one time I transferred $14000 and the missing amount was $20.

This never happened with E4F, each time I got the full amount. I'm still waiting for them to respond as it might make a difference in who is the cheapest.

Were your calculations above taking into account what was on the swift document or what hit your foreign bank account?
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on October 30, 2017, 02:48:53 pm
Okay, here's the response from clickfx
Quote
That would be the correspondent (intermediary) bank fees.

Mercantile has come up with a fairly new agreement, apart from the R325.00 flat bank fee – you may fund the account with an additional R250.00 and we could then send the funds off as “OUR”. So, this would then take care of that USD20/15 charge.
That would meant the total fee for clickfx is actually R575, not R325 (previously R350).
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Snapcase on October 30, 2017, 06:17:43 pm
Patrick, have you done a post on what you do with your cash once converted?
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: andre on October 31, 2017, 10:32:11 am
Okay, here's the response from clickfx
Quote
That would be the correspondent (intermediary) bank fees.

Mercantile has come up with a fairly new agreement, apart from the R325.00 flat bank fee – you may fund the account with an additional R250.00 and we could then send the funds off as “OUR”. So, this would then take care of that USD20/15 charge.
That would meant the total fee for clickfx is actually R575, not R325 (previously R350).

There was indeed a discrepancy of about 18 Euros in my last transfer.
Adding it to the flat fee and with the quoted FX rate it's still marginally beneficial compared to E4F.
The ratio stays constant but depending on the transaction value the benefit shrinks for smaller amounts.

(https://s1.postimg.cc/9g3tu0pxdr/Capture.jpg) (https://postimages.cc/)


Side note - Patrick perhaps you can consider installing the Postimages add-on to simplify embedding images?
https://postimages.org/smf




Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on October 31, 2017, 11:52:42 am
Patrick, have you done a post on what you do with your cash once converted?
Not yet, the bottleneck is still the foreign bank account. If you have ties to Europe N26 is the bank to go for, but for people without that it's still an issue.

If you're a private client or something very important like that you'll get help from your SA bank, but for someone with no ties to Europe and just a regular bank client it's a challenge.

Once the money is offshore things get easier. Interactive Brokers and Degiro will both offer trading accounts to South Africans. I have both but predominantly use Interactive Brokers for now as I get my offshore money in dollars not euros, but both are good. All I buy in those are the Vanguard all world index, VWRD.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: RichB on January 08, 2018, 03:23:13 pm
Hi - I am with clickFX and I just wanted to let everyone know that we are talking to Mercantile about how we can ensure that the full amount of FX you buy in SA actually hits your offshore account. It is typically the correspondent (routing) banks that are hooking the extra USD15-20 fee.

I will post something here when I have a solution, otherwise, thanks to those of you who are already using us. Any suggestions as to how we can improve our platform/process would be welcome.

Cheers
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on January 23, 2018, 10:38:29 am
Hey Rich, thanks for joining and letting us know about the potential fee cut. I've always been happy with the service, Nikita is also great to work with, I'll be giving her a shout again next month to do another transfer.

You hit my only recommendation for improvement, find any ways to cut costs!
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on March 12, 2018, 11:09:14 am
I've been in touch with a provider who is willing to move R100k+ out at 0.7% + R450 all included. Should make them the cheapest of the bunch, will update you at month end when I do the transfer.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: daniele on April 25, 2018, 07:44:23 pm
How did the experiment with the new provider turn out?
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on April 25, 2018, 08:24:26 pm
Good, got my money faster than usual and the rate was fractionally cheaper than anyone else I've used. If you'd like to use the same guys send an email to [email protected] or call him on 011 781 4454.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: daniele on April 26, 2018, 05:17:53 pm
Thanks Patrick. That is Gary Booysen's startup if I am not mistaken. Was the exchange rate offered on par with clickfx?
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on April 26, 2018, 10:57:59 pm
Yeah, I went to visit their offices to do some due diligence and ended up chatting to Gary for a good couple of hours. Decent guy.

The rate offered was the best I've had up to now so I'll use them again once I save up another R100k.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: JP on May 03, 2018, 07:23:14 am
Anyone figured out how to create a foreign bank account yet?  :)
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: gcr on May 23, 2018, 03:47:01 pm
you can use western union, moneygram, or payoneer..!!!
Interesting comment - as an ex banker how did you manage to open an account in a foreign domicile without completing that territories required documentation. Was this bank willing to accept address details as an SA domiciled citizen, and did they waive any documentary submissions. Also interested to hear how those who have in fact funded overseas accounts - what was the description of your remittance of funds to the overseas bank

Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: gcr on May 24, 2018, 09:38:54 am
Moneyweb has an article on investing offshore - it also cover (though scantily) the issue of estate duty in countries where your funds are invested
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Patrick on May 24, 2018, 10:19:39 am
Anyone figured out how to create a foreign bank account yet?  :)
Not yet, but if you've got $10 000 you can open an interactive brokers account which doesn't need an offshore bank account. That's my latest advice to all.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: andre on June 21, 2018, 10:08:45 pm
If you have a postal address in any EU country then you should be able to create an N26 account using your SA details. You don't need to be a resident and they will use your SA tax details and SA passport for verification. But you must have an EU address available to receive the associated Mastercard.
The basic account has no fees and I have funded my N26 multiple times with discretionary allowance from SA. From there I fund my DeGiro trading account and have set up the same for my wife.
If you want to give it a go send me your email address and I will send you an invite link.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: bw on July 13, 2018, 11:00:08 am
Andre, thanks for the tips!
Having a buddy (for an address) in the UK,  i tried to sign up on N26.. no go...it said Join the waiting list.N26 is coming to the United Kingdom.

Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: Bloodburner9000 on October 22, 2018, 08:11:16 am
So how would I go about funding my IB account (which I have not yet opened) without using a foreign bank account? Is it as simple as R100k from RSA bank account -> fund exchange4free/randswiss account (is it possible to have a balance?) -> interactive brokers account with correct reference/codes? Has anyone done exactly this?
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: 7osyscake on April 09, 2019, 10:47:53 pm
Use some onlive services like epayservices or e-payments or paxum or skrill ? Like any others already mentioned ? I see you want them cross the border but not from your own personal account, well that's totally doable, just research things I provided to you.
Title: Re: Transferring money overseas, any tips?
Post by: yozzi on January 11, 2020, 02:26:37 pm
Is there any updates on this topic? I'm looking to transfer a fair amount and looking for the best options?