Author Topic: Live chat  (Read 863222 times)

Orca

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7425 on: February 26, 2019, 02:44:50 pm »
Futures trading such as SSF's, CFD's and FX at margin is not taxable in many countries such as the UK as it is considered as gambling. What about SA?
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

gcr

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7426 on: February 26, 2019, 03:54:33 pm »
I dabbled in CFD in about 2005/2006 and then stopped - the reason being that they are short term contracts and as such SARS then saw this as trading. If you are categorized as a trader then SARS treat profits as income and you are tax accordingly, and if you really do well (ha ha) you could fall into the super bracket taxpayer. Also when I engaged with SARS to understand the ramifications of being a categorized as a trader you would have great difficulty convincing them that you could be a trader and an investor at the same time . I also raised the question of partitioning a portfolio into 2 components "trading" and "investing" - investing you have to hold the shares for 3 years to be categorized as an investor. When we had the crash 2007/2008 I sold out much of my portfolio some in time others not so lucky - but I still kept my status as an investor. Another "trick" I learnt was that you buy a sizeable parcel of shares and you trade within this parcel based on the shares volatility but tax year to tax year your holdings stay at the original purchase. However over the ears I have stopped doing this because my stockbroker now sends comprehensive documentation to SARS and their investigators will (if you are on their radar) interrogate your transactions on the transaction listing report.
One type of share dealings that seems to have either disappeared or doesn't seem popular anymore is installment shares. In 2005 and 2006 I built up my share portfolio this way - you bought x number of shares in a company (at trading prices) but only paid 55% up front the balance you could defer for one year - this gave you the opportunity to see the direction of the shares - if increasing in price you paid at the original agreed price and could then sell at the higher current price and make a small profit or large profit if it took off. Haven't checked lately whether they are still available though
Be very wary with SSF's and CFD's - in about 2006 I lost some R35 k in the space of 2 days so it really is gambling at the high end and as all casinos know the tables are loaded against the gambler   
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein

Orca

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7427 on: February 26, 2019, 05:39:08 pm »
The reason I mentioned this was because of that lucky lotto winner. As he is not a full time gambler he does not need to pay tax on his windfall.
If he does then all lotto players can book their losses to offset future winnings. This is the reason UK does not tax futures on margin. Most people loose and would book the losses.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Mr_Dividend

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7428 on: February 27, 2019, 03:47:23 pm »
Futures trading such as SSF's, CFD's and FX at margin is not taxable in many countries such as the UK as it is considered as gambling. What about SA?

Not sure if I am reading this right - but spread betting is not taxed, but CFDs are taxed in the UK.

Orca

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7429 on: February 27, 2019, 05:03:33 pm »
In the UK, CFDs, forex and spread betting are classed as ‘speculative’. As no underlying asset is actually owned, these derivatives escape Capital Gains Tax and HMRC view income derived from this speculation as tax-free. Individuals who class themselves as ‘trading for a living’ may need to pay income tax, but in general, profits are not liable for tax.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Mr_Dividend

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7430 on: February 28, 2019, 05:23:21 pm »
Quote
The main difference is the way they are treated for tax– spread bets are free from capital gains tax in the UK *, while CFDs are not. CFD trading is not tax free in the UK, while spread betting is. CFD equity trades ask for a commission – spread bets on shares do not.

you have a link? Everywhere I look says the above?

Orca

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7431 on: March 01, 2019, 09:50:36 am »
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Mr_Dividend

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7432 on: March 01, 2019, 04:24:17 pm »
cheers Orca - everwhere else say differently. Like the tax free nature of spreadbetting but they seem to be for day trading only as the close at the end of the day and need to be rolled over and as I am more a swing trader, CFDs make more sense.

Orca

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7433 on: March 04, 2019, 04:59:27 pm »
Seems like time to look at STXIND again.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

Bread

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7434 on: March 08, 2019, 06:50:11 am »
What's your view on the ZAR/USD?

I reckon it gonna strengthen again after the hoohaa over our Reserve Bank being nationalised blows over.

Orca

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7435 on: March 08, 2019, 10:11:20 am »
Nationalising the Reserve Bank is already known so it must be pricing it in now. International best practice is for the state to own central banks anyway. The weakening zar is now mostly due to the electricity price increase and the strengthening of the dollar.
I started here with nothing and still have most of it left.

jaDEB

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Live chat
« Reply #7436 on: March 08, 2019, 04:21:21 pm »
Man the casualties on JSE is getting bad, APN, BLU, EOH and ELB
jaDEB

Trust me, you get what you give - 2019

Patrick

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Live chat
« Reply #7437 on: March 09, 2019, 08:12:38 pm »
SNH too. I would have never guessed those in a million years.

gcr

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7438 on: March 10, 2019, 08:38:09 am »
Oh - the list is much longer than these few:-
Off my portfolio alone;
ADI, CML, DCP, IPL, L4L, RFG, RFL, SYG,  - all 20% or more down on original purchase price.
My view is that politics is getting in the way of good business practices and having a major depressing effect on the economy, and the ability of business to function in such negative environs.
Hardly a day goes by where we don't hear some or other depressing economic story, looting by politicians or interference in the lives of South African, and yet the landscape is littered with thieving, fraud and wholesale treasonable acts and yet nobody goes to jail for their crimes.
Sad state of affairs indeed 
Not everything that counts, can be counted, and, not everything that can be counted counts - Albert Einstein

Mr_Dividend

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Re: Live chat
« Reply #7439 on: March 11, 2019, 08:11:24 am »
WHL, SHP, BTI, BAT, TBR, TBS, ANH you can just go on and on.

Way harder to actually find stocks that have grown over the last 3-4 years bar mining stocks. Capitec? err, anyone else?