The JSE and finance forum for South Africa
General Category => Shares => Topic started by: Patrick on June 25, 2015, 11:37:02 am
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Ok, it's been a while since I started thinking of buying a different ETF. At the moment I have a good spread of the Satrix Indi and eRafi Indi. Both of those are heavily weighted in one share, the STX in Naspers and the eRafi in MTN.
Then on another note, I'm kind of in the home stretch to quitting my job, with somewhere between 1 and 5 years to go (obviously depends on many things), and that makes me think a little about dividends. While I know that selling shares is favourable income tax wise if you're a low earner, I do quite like seeing money magically appear in my account as it does with dividends.
So since I'm not clever enough to pick a share, I thought I'd look around and see what ETFs there are that pay reasonable dividends, and hopefully also provide some growth. Ideally they would also not have > 15% in a single share like STXIND and RAFIND do.
So I looked at the Satrix Divi, but it's performance has been pretty terrible over the last while. Growth (including dividends) over 1 year of 5.6%, over 2 years was 8% and over 5 years 12.6%. Not somewhere I want to put any money.
Fortunately last year Grindrod introduced the Dividends Aristocrats ETF. It's based on the S&P SA Dividend Aristocrats index. It's calculated on an equal weighting of companies that have either maintained, or increased their dividends for 5 years running. If you want all the details on how they got there, you can read here: http://www.moneyweb.co.za/archive/not-all-dividend-funds-are-made-equal/
The performance has been great. 29% in 1 year, 23.7% in 3 years and 22.3% in 5 years, including the yield of about 3%.
Here are the shares that make up the index. Initially they were all equally weighted:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/SP_Holdings_zpsnngur9yj.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/SP_Holdings_zpsnngur9yj.png.html)
But as they are only rebalanced once a year (July), the ratios change as shares increase or decrease in value, so the top 10 right now are:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/SP_top10_zpsy8auzpmf.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/SP_top10_zpsy8auzpmf.png.html)
And the current sector allocation:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/SP_Sector_zpsjktjvdyj.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/SP_Sector_zpsjktjvdyj.png.html)
And lastly, how the share has compared to the Satrix Indi (Indi in black), remember that you would need to add another 1.6% to the DIVTRX as it had a yield of +- 3% over the indi's +-1.4%:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/SP_vs_INDI_zpsmjqh5yg3.gif) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/SP_vs_INDI_zpsmjqh5yg3.gif.html)
It's not often I do a comparison chart and see an ETF hovering about the Indi. Any other opinions on this ETF?
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I'm seriously looking at ETF's now and that one looks right up my ally. :TU:
How do I go about buying as I can't find it on the JSE?
Found it I think. Moneyweb has it as GDT but it is DIVTRX on the JSE. Is this the correct one as it has only been listed for about 1 year?
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I'm seriously looking at ETF's now and that one looks right up my ally. :TU:
How do I go about buying as I can't find it on the JSE?
Found it I think. Moneyweb has it as GDT but it is DIVTRX on the JSE. Is this the correct one as it has only been listed for about 1 year?
Yeah it's DIVTRX. The ETF is new, about a year old, but the index has been around for over 5 years I believe.
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Thanks P. Sold all my CML today and now looking for opportunities to buy this one. Might take a few days to get filled.
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How on earth to buy this. Only 2 sellers and at a tenth of the volume that I want. :frustrated:
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When I bought for my TSA - I wanted 10K and I could only buy 5K. Although I guess you looking for a few more Mr Cash Flush Orca.
I would also look at the Satrx/ Rafi FINI as well - and of course the SATRIX/Rafi INDI. 1/3 each would probably get you a pretty decent portfolio.
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I guess this one flies out the window then. :'(
The Satrix Divi and Rafi were a dead loss this year and not much better over 5 years.
The performance and resilience of the Indi seems attractive to me.
The Fini is just too volatile if you need to make regular withdrawals
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It's an ETF, there should always be robot buyers and sellers taking everything you want. I'll check it in the morning when the market opens again.
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It's an ETF, there should always be robot buyers and sellers taking everything you want. I'll check it in the morning when the market opens again.
I was also under that impression but on Twitter there are people complaining about the large spreads and severe lack of volume. One person saying that if Grindrod cannot do it then they should outsource it.
The spreads are much larger than the general market performance of the day. This is poor management and I have lost confidence in it as it only has a market cap of R34m and should they delist, you will have to wait months for your money.
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Ok, so here's the spread:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/SP_Spread_zpsa7gsmmm6.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/SP_Spread_zpsa7gsmmm6.png.html)
The "robots" will buy and sell 5000 of these shares at a time, continuously. That means you can do a purchase for +- R142 000 at a time. Once you've done that transaction, give the system a few minutes and you'll see that the robots have replenished themselves back to 5000 again.
The current spread is 20c, meaning you're likely paying a 10c premium over the asset calculated price. That's a percentage of 0.35%. That's more than the STXIND at 0.12%, but less than the RMBMID at 0.61%. One point to note, is that the DIVTRX has a TER of 0.38% against the STXIND of 0.45%, so you will make back that spread fee in about three years, and after that you'll be better off.
Unless something major changes my mind, I'm still planning on switching my purchasing to DIVTRX from next month.
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Their Market Maker will top up with 5 000 shares at a time and if you require more then you can do so via your Market Maker or contact Grindrod.
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On Friday I was watching STXIND and DIVTRX and found that the robot of the INDI kept topping up the buys and sells well within range to track the index and a mere 0.3%.
The DIVTRX had a 5% buy spread when the ALSI and the STXINDI only had a 0.3% change. Then the topping up stopped and only 1 seller at a small volume of 500 and this lasted most of the afternoon.
I think their robot needs fixing.
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http://t.co/HsAFmZ39uH
100 000 shares just got listed, go go go :TU: :LHST: :LHST:
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They must be reading Marco's posts :))
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Spread at 10c. :TU:
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I see bid at 2714 and offer at 2734, Isn't that a 20c spread? Are you seeing something else?
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Morning all
Please excuse me if this is a stupid question, but I also hold the DIVTRX in my TFSA and I would like to know, are dividend pay dates typically the same each year? Or if they do move around, are they in the same months at least? I have tried looking on Google Finance to get an idea of pay dates of the previous year etc, but I am still not sure.
I guess this question applies to any dividend paying shares.
Thanks guys
J
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On the whole - the dates do stay the same. But just remember there is a declared date, last date to trade and pay date. There can be up to 2 month between the first and last.
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I see bid at 2714 and offer at 2734, Isn't that a 20c spread? Are you seeing something else?
I suppose it depends on your platform. When I phone my broker, he can see bids and buys that don't show up on my screen.
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On the whole - the dates do stay the same. But just remember there is a declared date, last date to trade and pay date. There can be up to 2 month between the first and last.
Attached are the last 4 divis.
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Thanks Mr_Dividend & Patrick.
Any ideas on when to expect the next dividend pay out? I am sort of seeing a pattern, but still not sure.
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Next divi should be in the 1'st week of August.
Just bought a couple of the robot batches at under the ruling price and it made no diffs to the ruling price???
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Thanks for the info Orca.
Do you mind me asking, how much did you pay per batch? I thought initially the price might not have moved due to the 20min delay on Google Finance ( what I use ), but I see it shows 4500 units @ 15:50 @ 2787.
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I only bought the 5 000 robot shares at 2787, 2794 and 2798. Strange why the INDI made 1.1% gains and DIVTRX was flat.
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A reply to myself. DIVTRX was flat today due to LEW and WBO. PNG is not helping by being suspended.
Here is my screenshot of my calculation of today taking all stocks being in equal proportion.
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Hi all
Just thought I would share, if I understand the SENS correctly http://www.sharenet.co.za/free/sens/disp_news.phtml?tdate=20150716101200&seq=25&scheme=default (http://www.sharenet.co.za/free/sens/disp_news.phtml?tdate=20150716101200&seq=25&scheme=default) the dividend should be paid on 21 July @ 24.93c net.
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I missed that by 2 weeks. :wall:
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I missed it by 1 day... :( Bought it the first time on the 29th of June.
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Being new to ETF's, I was wondering how this one tracks it's underlying index if no trades are done for the day.
Does management buy and sell at market close to correct the mismatch?
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Being new to ETF's, I was wondering how this one tracks it's underlying index if no trades are done for the day.
Does management buy and sell at market close to correct the mismatch?
The price for the instrument will match the index, you just won't see the change until someone buys. But have a look at the live pricing. For instance, I now see the price in my portfolio sitting at 2807, but the bid is 2810 and the offer is 2830. So I know I'm worth more than indicated!
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I see that but I was wondering as it is afternoon already and volume is still zero.
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Good news here, the spread is now down to 8c :)
I bought a chunk of this during the correction last week, so I'm pretty happy. Incidentally some poor sap paid R31 per share for 668 of these today, when the market maker has them priced at R26.53. They've just spent R3000 more than they should have!
It does make it look like I have 16.5% growth today, so on paper at least I'm feeling pretty wealthy haha.
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I saw that as well!
LDT for the September dividend distribution has been posted, the 17th of Sept. :TU:
http://www.sharenet.co.za/free/sens/disp_news.phtml?tdate=20150901084800&seq=12&scheme=default
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So I assume LDT means that anyone who buys shares in the ETF after 17 September will not be eligible for the dividend?
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So I assume LDT means that anyone who buys shares in the ETF after 17 September will not be eligible for the dividend?
yes. But remember, it's only 1/4 of the yearly dividend - so not a reason to hit the buy button...
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DIVTX trading at below R26 at the moment. BUY BUY BUY! ;)
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Consensus is that the TOPI would retest the 42 area. Traders shorting the market and will close at last month's low at 42 odd. Not written in stone but just saying.
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Mind explaining what the TOPI is? And even more interestingly what the 42 area is?
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The JSE TOP40 is known as the TOPI. Currently it's price is at 43314 and the low it hit last month was circa 42 000. Also known as JH-ALSI40 and the index code is J200.
This 42 000 area is where traders will close (buy) their shorts and this should halt any further deterioration. This would be a "support" area.
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DIVTRX really been taking a beating since Friday ???
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Morning all.
I see that the distribution was to be paid on the 13th:
http://coreshares.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/08-Oct-15-DIVTRX-DISTRIBUTION-FINALISATION-ANNOUNCEMENT.pdf
"The distribution will be made to all holders of DivTrax securities who were recorded in the register on
25 September 2015 and will be paid on 13 October 2015."
Nothing showing up on my easyequities account. Has anybody else recieved their distribution?
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I received mine
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Morning all.
I see that the distribution was to be paid on the 13th:
http://coreshares.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/08-Oct-15-DIVTRX-DISTRIBUTION-FINALISATION-ANNOUNCEMENT.pdf
"The distribution will be made to all holders of DivTrax securities who were recorded in the register on
25 September 2015 and will be paid on 13 October 2015."
Nothing showing up on my easyequities account. Has anybody else recieved their distribution?
I just sent EE an email this morning asking whats up, because I haven't received anything either. EE states on their website that they pay dividends one day after the actual pay date as per SENS, but yeah, nothing yet.
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Interesting, also have not received - guess they earning interest in someone else's bank account. Has any one without an EE account received and on what day?
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I am with Absa stockbrokers. Got paid 09/10..
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I am with Absa stockbrokers. Got paid 09/10..
Weirdly I'm also with ABSA, but mine was paid only on the 12th Oct.
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Interesting, also have not received - guess they earning interest in someone else's bank account. Has any one without an EE account received and on what day?
With FNB and got mine on the 13th
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I am with Absa stockbrokers. Got paid 09/10..
Weirdly I'm also with ABSA, but mine was paid only on the 12th Oct.
Guess even major banks have problems raising the cash to pay Patricks dividends...
:D
Thanks guys, looks like EE is the only one hanging on to the cash, or is it a glitch. I while ago I had a problem with them taking off 15% on REITS dividend (TWR) - not only that, took a couple of phone calls before they said they were wrong.
Not good - you do not want to have to constantly check dividends payment to see if they have been paid and are correct. Is it AG that says "trust is earned".
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Guess even major banks have problems raising the cash to pay Patricks dividends...
:D
Not good - you do not want to have to constantly check dividends payment to see if they have been paid and are correct. Is it AG that says "trust is earned".
Maybe one day 8)
Strange that AG would have that slogan after the way they changed their benchmark and mixed it in with the vote on 3 other changes to ensure a yes result when clearly most investors would have said no if it was asked alone...
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I am with Absa stockbrokers. Got paid 09/10..
Weirdly I'm also with ABSA, but mine was paid only on the 12th Oct.
Guess even major banks have problems raising the cash to pay Patricks dividends...
:D
Thanks guys, looks like EE is the only one hanging on to the cash, or is it a glitch. I while ago I had a problem with them taking off 15% on REITS dividend (TWR) - not only that, took a couple of phone calls before they said they were wrong.
Not good - you do not want to have to constantly check dividends payment to see if they have been paid and are correct. Is it AG that says "trust is earned".
If I may ask Mr_D, do you only use EE as a platform?
Your comment on the REIT thing makes me uncomfortable...I really want EE to succeed, but as you said, I want to trust them, not check up on them every time divs are paid...
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Jonny - main account is with ABSA - my "speculative/holiday" money is with EE. They still pretty new, so probably haven't ironed out all the crinkles - am am sure their fractional shares cause them a few headaches.. But is seems your "full"shares are registered with compushare.
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What do you guys think of Purple Group & Taste Holdings, selling for 70c & R4 respectively??
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Jonny - main account is with ABSA - my "speculative/holiday" money is with EE. They still pretty new, so probably haven't ironed out all the crinkles - am am sure their fractional shares cause them a few headaches.. But is seems your "full"shares are registered with compushare.
Thanks Mr_D.
Just to clarify, I am not worried about the share ownership part so much, I am just worried about the dividend payments, withholding tax calcs etc...So I will be checking everything that they pay into my account. Hopefully no problems!
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Please note that the dividends for DivTrax ETF (DIVTRX) securities will be paid today.
Apologies for the delay in payment..The reason for this delay is because of a late notification from our CSDP. They have apologized for the breakdown in communication and we are addressing this with them so that it doesn't happen again.
If you have any further queries, please don't hesitate to ask and we'd be delighted to help you.
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Feedback from EE:
Hi Johnny,
Ticket: #1705
Please note that the dividends for DivTrax ETF (DIVTRX) will be paid today.
Apologies for the delay in payment..The reason for this delay is because of a late notification from our CSDP. They have apologized for the breakdown in communication and we are addressing this with them so that it doesn't happen again.
If you have any further queries, please don't hesitate to ask and we'd be delighted to help you.
Regards
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What do you guys think of Purple Group & Taste Holdings, selling for 70c & R4 respectively??
Taste - for me, has the best chance of being a 10 year 10 bagger. Have bought a few and will be following my rights.
Last year I bought a tiny amount of Purple @ 40c and sold a few months later @ 30c - :'( was a tiny amount and it did not fit with my main portfolio - but I think it's worth a speculative punt. Would also look at trustco and Rhodes for small cap speculative punts, IMO
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Dividends received! And calculated to within 1c of what I calculated myself, so I am happy :)
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Dividends received! And calculated to within 1c of what I calculated myself, so I am happy :)
Yep confirmed from my side as well
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I'm curious, were all of you invested in DIVTRX before the thread started, or should I try hit CoreShares up for some commission ;D
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Nope. it's your thread that go me looking into the DIVTRX.
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Only if you mentioned it before
Re: Easy Equities, any opinions?
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2015, 04:12:36 pm »
QuoteModifyRemove
Choosing my ETF's for my TFSA
Quite like the company mix/proportions on this one:
http://coreshares.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DivTrax-Fact-Sheets-MAR-2015.pdf
to go with the SATRIX INDI half/half - or 1/3rds with SATRIX FINI as well.
Otherwise the commission is all mine (rubs hands and giggles manically)
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Only if you mentioned it before
Re: Easy Equities, any opinions?
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2015, 04:12:36 pm »
QuoteModifyRemove
Choosing my ETF's for my TFSA
Quite like the company mix/proportions on this one:
http://coreshares.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DivTrax-Fact-Sheets-MAR-2015.pdf
to go with the SATRIX INDI half/half - or 1/3rds with SATRIX FINI as well.
Otherwise the commission is all mine (rubs hands and giggles manically)
Ah you have me beat by a couple of months. I'll have them redirect my check to the Cape :)
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I see coreshares is finally listing their fund breakdown on the website. Here's the 30 September breakdown for DIVTRX:
Share Code Share Name Weight
SAB SABMILLER PLC 2.82
PSG PSG GROUP LIMITED 2.81
BLU BLUE LABEL TELECOMS LTD 2.77
CPI CAPITEC BANK HOLDING 2.70
BTI BRIT AMERICA TOBACO 2.61
MDC MEDICLINIC INTNL LTD 2.59
DST DISTELL GROUP LIMITE 2.58
AVI AVI LIMITED 2.56
CFR COM FINANCE RICHMONT SA 2.52
SNT SANTAM LIMITED 2.52
BVT BIDVEST GROUP LTD 2.51
DSY DISCOVERY HLDS LTD 2.42
MNP MONDI PLC 2.40
WHL WOOLWORTHS HLDS LTD 2.38
TRU TRUWORTHS INT LTD 2.37
REM REMGRO LIMITED 2.36
RMH RMB HOLDINGS LIMITED 2.34
SPP SPAR GROUP 2.32
TFG THE FOSCHINI GROUP LTD 2.31
JSE JSE LTD 2.29
OML OLD MUTUAL PLC 2.27
NTC NETCARE LIMITED 2.26
SHP SHOPRITE HLDS LTD 2.25
EOH EOH HOLDINGS 2.24
NPN NASPERS LIMITED 2.24
RMI RMI HOLDINGS 2.24
FSR FIRSTRAND LIMITED 2.18
INL INVESTEC LIMITED 2.17
NED NEDBANK GROUP LTD 2.12
BIL BHP BILLITON PLC 2.10
TRE TRENCOR LIMITED 2.10
SBK STANDARD BK GRP LTD 2.07
SLM SANLAM LIMITED 2.03
HDC HUDACO INDUSTRIES 2.01
ASR ASSORE LIMITED 1.99
MTN MTN GROUP LIMITED 1.99
LEW LEWIS GROUP LTD 1.97
AFE A E C I LIMITED 1.93
CML CORONATION FUND MAN 1.93
MMI MMI HOLDINGS LIMITED 1.87
MPC MR PRICE GROUP LTD 1.82
MSM MASSMART HOLDINGS 1.78
AGL ANGLO AMERICAN PLC 1.63
ARI AFRICAN RAINBOW MINE 1.58
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I see coreshares is finally listing their fund breakdown on the website. Here's the 30 September breakdown for DIVTRX:
Share Code Share Name Weight
ASR ASSORE LIMITED 1.99
LEW LEWIS GROUP LTD 1.97
AFE A E C I LIMITED 1.93
MSM MASSMART HOLDINGS 1.78
AGL ANGLO AMERICAN PLC 1.63
ARI AFRICAN RAINBOW MINE 1.58
I wonder of the above listed shares will still be in the DIVTRX after the next rebalancing. I don't follow all of them closely, but pretty sure at least some of those resource shares have decreased dividends during the last year/few months. Lewis & Mass Mart also not doing too well..?
If I am not mistaken, they will then be replaced?
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I wonder of the above listed shares will still be in the DIVTRX after the next rebalancing. I don't follow all of them closely, but pretty sure at least some of those resource shares have decreased dividends during the last year/few months. Lewis & Mass Mart also not doing too well..?
If I am not mistaken, they will then be replaced?
They might not be replaced, that would depend on a different company now meeting the qualification criteria, but they could simply be dropped and have the other holdings increase.
I imagine we'll see the number of shares in this index increase and decrease depending on how the economy is doing as a whole.
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Quite a few mice & rats sneaking in on the rebalancing, mainly resource shares desperately keeping up dividends to appease nervous investors. Wouldn't happen in the States where membership requires a solid 25-year track record.
Oh well, joys of investing in a tracker fund - and tinkering with the formula - on NAV for instance - would rule out small growth stocks.
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Hi All
I am looking to move money from a unit trust to a mix of DIVTRX & possibly PTXTEN ( 80/20 split ), but with my broker, Easy Equities, it looks like a bit of a mission to buy 150k of an ETF in one go. Usually I can only get R4500 per buy, but can do so seemingly endlessly. It also makes no difference to the total cost if 1 do 1 transaction of 150k or 30 of ~5k each. I just don't feel like doing it 30 times haha.
Has anyone made some bigger than 10-20k buys on DIVTRX specifically on EE before? If you have, I would like to know what the process was.
Thanks
J
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I ran into this. You can call them and do the trade over the phone.
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Thanks Patrick, will do so!
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I found it very simple to buy a six figure sum of DIVTRX in minutes. If the spread is ridiculously high or there are no sellers then the robot will place a 5 000 share batch automatically. This equates to R137k at a time. You just need to wait a few minutes for the robot to place the sale.
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I am getting a bit nervous with DIVTRX as STXIND is beating it by far and I have not yet worked out the diffs in fees and dividends between the two.
At this stage I am hoping that the lower cost and higher divies of DIVTRX will at least equalize them.
My benchmark has always been STXIND and so far only 3 of 5 stocks has managed to outperform it over the past year.
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SAB and NPN have been driving the indi higher lately. If you removed them from the index I think it would look pretty much the same as the DIVTRX. I'm curious to see what happens with DIVTRX now that it's grown to 40+ shares. I'd hope that it would still have similar market beating growth like it's had so far.
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Patrick, do you maybe know why it has grown to 40+ shares?
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Patrick, do you maybe know why it has grown to 40+ shares?
To qualify to be in the index, the company must have 5 years of not decreasing a dividend. Any company that has done this is included, and equally weighted. Last year there were only 24 qualifiers, this year there are 44. If for some reason the economy tanks and there aren't 20 qualifiers, then the criteria will be relaxed until there are 20.
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Here's the latest chart, that crossover point seems to match pretty well with the announcement of the SAB takeover. SAB and Naspers make up 19%+ each of the Indi, so even if DIVTRX can't keep up at the moment, it is significantly lower risk. Last years dividend payments were also over 4% of the current price, compared to the 1.4% for the indi.
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Patrick, do you maybe know why it has grown to 40+ shares?
To qualify to be in the index, the company must have 5 years of not decreasing a dividend. Any company that has done this is included, and equally weighted. Last year there were only 24 qualifiers, this year there are 44. If for some reason the economy tanks and there aren't 20 qualifiers, then the criteria will be relaxed until there are 20.
Thanks for the reply Patrick.
I have another more general question for everyone. Currently DIVTRX is the core ETF of my portfolio & makes up ~40% of the value. I am planning to add more with money from a unit trust that I sold recently which would make it ~50%.
So the question I guess is, am I wrong to put that big a part of my portfolio in the DIVTRX specifically?
Other current holding is:
PTXTEN : ~17%
DBXUS : ~ 8%
STXIND : ~6% ( I know this one has been epic to date as well, but I feel a little uncomfortable with the high NPN/MTN/SAB weighting in it )
Rest is split over a few shares.
If I look through the list of shares in the DIVTRX, except for a few, I like all of them and I feel that it mostly holds good solid companies.
So yeah, I plan to keep on using it as my core ETF, but I would like some more opinions before I add more.
Thanks all!
J
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I doubt if DIVTRX with it's more than 40 stocks will be able to beat the STXIND with it's 25 stocks. It is a known fact that the more stocks you hold, the less growth you get but the plus is that it will be less volatile.
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Personally, if I was going to have a ETF type portfolio and I was not worried about dividends, I would have 20 -25% in DBXUS. Just so I can smile when the rand tanks.
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Personally, if I was going to have a ETF type portfolio and I was not worried about dividends, I would have 20 -25% in DBXUS. Just so I can smile when the rand tanks.
I plan on doing just that Mr D. However, I thought I would split it equally between DBXUS & DBXEU. Combined, that would give me a total of 30% "offshore" in my portfolio.
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I'm waiting to see what absa offers in terms of offshore investing instead of the DBX trackers. I just can't pay those free for an etf that should be less that half that price.
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I'm waiting to see what absa offers in terms of offshore investing instead of the DBX trackers. I just can't pay those free for an etf that should be less that half that price.
I really wouldn't mind investing directly offshore. But I really wish there was an easy way to transfer money to an offshore account, like something you do via internet banking. It seems like a mission to go to the bank & request a currency conversion & transfer.
Anyway, could I ask you for your opinion om my question stated above on DTRX being a core ETF please :)
Thanks
J
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It's my core ETF JohhnyH. At the moment I'm about 40% DIVTRX, 30% STXIND and 30% FOORD equity. Once my 3 year holding period for FOORD expires early next year, unless I can somehow buy something international without paying massive fees, that 30% will also go into DIVTRX.
My thinking is this:
I need an ETF that is well diversified, with reasonable costs as my core. The STXIND is out, with it holding 19%+ in both SAB and NPN. And if SAB leaves, then the NPN holding will rise to close on 23%. I'm not comfortable with that. The STX40 is out for similar reasons, as is the DIVIND. I won't hold the DBX trackers, I just can't pay those fees, plus have you seen the spreads on offer. I also looked at the RMB midcap, which had relatively good performance for some time, but it also had fee and spread issues for me.
The DIVTRX on the other hand is well diversified, At worst you end up with 5% per share, currently it's under 3% per share, across a number of sectors. The costs are relatively low at 0.39%, and the spread is also reasonably small now, around 8c.
Then of course we all want decent performance. DIVTRX has done relatively well in the past, but with a "smart beta" etf, you're looking more at the methodology. DIVTRX is based on the S&P dividends aristocrats index. In SA this means all companies that have held or increased dividends in 5 years. This is turn is based on the S&P 500 dividends aristocrats model (though they need 25 years), which was modeled on the successful strategy employed by a number of successful dividend investors.
So is it a good strategy? History seems to think so. Here's a chart of the S&P dividend aristocrats 500 compared to the S&P 500:
(http://www.nicholasvardy.com/wp-content/uploads/SP500_121614.jpg)
As you can see, since 1990 it's either tracked the 500, or beaten the 500, apart for some anomoly in the early 2000's. And it most likely paid higher dividends in the process. As always past performance may not be future performance, but for me, I'm quite comfortable with the strategy. If a company does badly and cuts their dividend, they'll be out in no more than 6 months. I like this as it's a potentially fast filter, and I don't have to pay capital gains for dumping the bad share. So for now, I'll keep sticking my money into it, and keep hoping for decent growth while paying above average dividends.
I may change this in future if a better product comes around, but so far there's nothing I'd rather invest in. If anyone has a pointer as to what to look at I'd love to hear it.
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It's my core ETF JohhnyH. At the moment I'm about 40% DIVTRX, 30% STXIND and 30% FOORD equity. Once my 3 year holding period for FOORD expires early next year, unless I can somehow buy something international without paying massive fees, that 30% will also go into DIVTRX.
My thinking is this:
I need an ETF that is well diversified, with reasonable costs as my core. The STXIND is out, with it holding 19%+ in both SAB and NPN. And if SAB leaves, then the NPN holding will rise to close on 23%. I'm not comfortable with that. The STX40 is out for similar reasons, as is the DIVIND. I won't hold the DBX trackers, I just can't pay those fees, plus have you seen the spreads on offer. I also looked at the RMB midcap, which had relatively good performance for some time, but it also had fee and spread issues for me.
The DIVTRX on the other hand is well diversified, At worst you end up with 5% per share, currently it's under 3% per share, across a number of sectors. The costs are relatively low at 0.39%, and the spread is also reasonably small now, around 8c.
Then of course we all want decent performance. DIVTRX has done relatively well in the past, but with a "smart beta" etf, you're looking more at the methodology. DIVTRX is based on the S&P dividends aristocrats index. In SA this means all companies that have held or increased dividends in 5 years. This is turn is based on the S&P 500 dividends aristocrats model, which modeled on the successful strategy employed by a number of successful dividend investors.
As you can see, since 1990 it's either tracked the 500, or beaten the 500, apart for some anomoly in the early 2000's. And it most likely paid higher dividends in the process. As always past performance may not be future performance, but for me, I'm quite comfortable with the strategy. If a company does badly and cuts their dividend, they'll be out in no more than 6 months. I like this as it's a potentially fast filter, and I don't have to pay capital gains for dumping the bad share. So for now, I'll keep sticking my money into it, and keep hoping for decent growth while paying above average dividends.
I may change this in future if a better product comes around, but so far there's nothing I'd rather invest in. If anyone has a pointer as to what to look at I'd love to hear it.
Hi Patrick
Thank you for taking the time to post such a comprehensive reply. I appreciate it!
It will be interesting over time to see what makes the DIVTRX "cut" as time goes by!
Thanks
J
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Satrix have introduced a unit trust that looks quite interesting -
The Quality Index Fund tracks the S&P SA Quality index which aims to capture the stock performance of high quality South Africa companies based on 1. Future profitability 2. Integrity of their earnings 3. Financial robustness.
Shares that are deemed to show a good quality score based on certain financial ratios such as ROE, ROA, GP, Accrual Ratios, Changes in CF and accruals. These are ranked and the top quintile is included in the index.
Simon Brown recommends the BBET equal-weighted ETF (top 40 shares) as a core holding - he then selects satellite "awesome", hold-forever stocks and niche ETFs like PROPTX10 to outperform the top40 index. JohnnyH, have you considered DBXWD? It's almost 60% USA, maybe 30% Europe & the rest developed economies. Or subscribe to Astoria IPO next week (a portfolio of worldwide stocks managed by Anchor; but with a TER of 1.6% expensive for some)!
I guess negative sentiments about Div Aristocrats will come out when it's underperforming, nevertheless I preferred the look of it with just the 25-odd stocks. If only the 5-year period were extended to exclude those horrible cyclical mining companies! But I like the ETF's quality bias & that you're being paid a dividend to be patient.
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Satrix have introduced a unit trust that looks quite interesting -
The Quality Index Fund tracks the S&P SA Quality index which aims to capture the stock performance of high quality South Africa companies based on 1. Future profitability 2. Integrity of their earnings 3. Financial robustness.
Shares that are deemed to show a good quality score based on certain financial ratios such as ROE, ROA, GP, Accrual Ratios, Changes in CF and accruals. These are ranked and the top quintile is included in the index.
Simon Brown recommends the BBET equal-weighted ETF (top 40 shares) as a core holding - he then selects satellite "awesome", hold-forever stocks and niche ETFs like PROPTX10 to outperform the top40 index. JohnnyH, have you considered DBXWD? It's almost 60% USA, maybe 30% Europe & the rest developed economies. Or subscribe to Astoria IPO next week (a portfolio of worldwide stocks managed by Anchor; but with a TER of 1.6% expensive for some)!
I guess negative sentiments about Div Aristocrats will come out when it's underperforming, nevertheless I preferred the look of it with just the 25-odd stocks. If only the 5-year period were extended to exclude those horrible cyclical mining companies! But I like the ETF's quality bias & that you're being paid a dividend to be patient.
Hi Ron
Thanks for your recommendation. I have considered the DBXWD yes, but in the end I decided to rather split it equally between DBXEU & US. I like the US better, but I am thinking (hopefully) that over the next 30 years, I would like exposure to both regions almost equally.
I like the idea Astoria very very much and I will be watching it closely. The fees, yes, its high...but I think it would still be worth it if it grows at 20-25% pa.
DIVTRX, for me, also a 30+ year time horizon, so I am not too concerned with the current holdings, but it probably would have been much better it stayed with the ~25 stocks it had initially. Dividend yield is quite nice though. I am quite curios to see what the div will be for the last quarter of the year.
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Anyone else nervous about this etf?
I'm still holding, regrettably, but more out of hope.
Including the dismal resource shares (don't bank on divs from these) - roughly half these companies are very much dependent on SA Inc, which in my considered view is fast going down the cr@pper :o
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What is the last day to trade to qualify for the December dividend?
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Anyone else nervous about this etf?
I'm still holding, regrettably, but more out of hope.
Including the dismal resource shares (don't bank on divs from these) - roughly half these companies are very much dependent on SA Inc, which in my considered view is fast going down the cr@pper :o
I think the filter will take care of those companies going down hill. If they cut their dividend they'll be out at the next rebalance. It'll probably cost less in taxes having the ETF drop stocks than if you held them in your personal capacity.
How SA inc fares is more of a question to me, as the big drop on friday wasn't a mirror of anything happening internationally, it was all down to us and our ratings. As you would have seen though, no sector was safe, so probably the best thing to do in that case is to diversify across markets.
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What is the last day to trade to qualify for the December dividend?
LDT is 23 Dec. Payments probably somewhere mid-Jan or so.
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Thanks Johnny :)
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I see the spread is now at 22c. It was as low as 7c a while ago, I wonder why there's such a big change?
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Not even this well-designed index/ETF with its counter-revolutionary name can outperform the gross incompetence of our so called 'leaders'...
Cry, the beloved country...
I'm losing rational hope at an exponentially increasing pace.
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Year to date DIVTRX vs DBXWD vs STXIND:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/DIVDBXINDI_zpskw2bsqak.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DIVDBXINDI_zpskw2bsqak.png.html)
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I've been looking at exactly the same trend over the last week... and am thankful.
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Yes. The DIVTRX has beaten the DBX's by a whopping 19% this year so far. Thankfully I did not panic and flee to the DBX's.
Now as the emerging markets have a rest after the surge, lets see if they will resume soon again.
The SA current-account deficit widened more than expected and caused a weakening of the ZAR. This coupled with the bad news from China today attenuated the move.
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DIVTRX up by 3.04% today and still thundering ahead of the DBX's by 19% this year. Dividends will be paid in a week or so. :TU:
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I don't get this and it happens every day. DIVTRX gained 20c today but my broker site states that it lost 15c. Sharenet also shows a loss of 15c.
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Maybe because it last traded at 3.39pm and there were no further trades ? I have no idea.
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Yes Moon. You are correct. The robot correction trade at close is not recorded in the percentage gain/loss.
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YTD.
DIVTRX up by 16%
STXIND up by 4%
DBXUS up by 2%
DBXEU down by 7%
:TU:
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I will need to rebalance my portfolio.
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Monstrous spread on DIVTRX yesterday and today. Also far fewer shares available in the market maker. Current spread is 64c :frustrated:
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YTD.
DIVTRX +18%
STXIND +2%
DBXUS -2%
DBXWD -5%
DBXEU -13%
:TU:
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Here is a YTD chart. The STXIND is the shaded mountain chart at +2% and the DIVTRX is the one waaay up at 25%. The DBX's are all negative.
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Only because R strength ..